FAQs on Transparent Complaint / Proposal procedure, Right to Recall procedures, Jury System , MRCM & Other Right to Recall Group Proposals
You can download following document, which includes all our proposals.
(The FAQs on Right to Recall apply to all procedures of Right to recall like RTR-PM, RTR-CM, RTR-DEO, RTR-RBI governor, etc)
Right to recall Lokpal link-
Prajaa Adhin LokPal(Hindi) link-
Following is the description of one of the most important Govt Order we propose-demand and promise to fix the corruption of India - Right to Recall Lokpal
1. Any citizen of India can pay a deposit same as MP election to the district collector and register himself
as a candidate for LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON
citizen of India can walk to Talati’s (Village Officer) office, pay Rs 3 fee , approve at most five
persons for LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON position. The Talati will give him a receipt with his voter-id#
finger print scan and the persons he approved. (With coming of Secure sms system/ATM system , the
cost will be few paise)
3. A citizen can cancel his approvals any day as well.
Talati / V.O will put the preferences of the citizen on Lokpal’s website with
number and his preferences.
5. If a
candidate gets approval of over 24 crore citizen voters and one crore more than
existing lokpal, then
existing LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON may resign and appoint the person with highest approval as
These procedures can also be used by citizens to RETAIN and bring back a honest person if he has been wrong fully been removed by some authority and also to REJECT a dishonest person.
Similar will be the draft for other posts at national/state level like PM, CM, ministers, RBI governor, Supreme Court Judges etc. Just replace the word `lokpal` with PM, CM etc. And the threshold level given in point no. 5 will vary with the post and will be finalised via Transparent Complaint Procedure via majority approval of voters.
CITIZENS VOICE Transparent Complaint / Proposal Procedure Gazette notification
(Gazette means instructions printed by PM or CM to the government officers)
1) if ANY citizen- voter in his district submits a Right to Information application or complaint against corruption or any affidavit to the Collector and requests to be put on the website of Prime Minister, the Collector or his designated clerk will issue a serial number and scan and put that affidavit etc on the website of the Prime Minister for a fee of Rs 20 per page.
2) if ANY citizen-voter , comes with voter ID, and specifies Yes-No on an RTI application, complaint or any affidavit submitted in clause-1, the Patwari or Village Officer (V.O) will enter his Yes-No on the PM‟s website with his voter-ID , photo and finger print scan and give a printed receipt for Rs 3 fee. Later it will be extended to SMS and the cost will go down to a few paise.
2A) The Patwari / V.O. will also allow citizen to change his Yes-No for Rs 3 fee any day. The fee will be Re 1 for BPL card holder.
3) This CITIZENS`VOICE/JANTA KI AWAZ GN is not a referendum procedure. The Yes-No count will not be a binding on PM, CMs, officers, If over 37 crore citizen-voters register Yes on a given affidavit, then the PM may or need not take necessary action on the RTI application affidavit ; or the PM may or need not resign. PM‟s decision will be final.
I summarize the
CITIZENS`VOICE Transparent complaint procedure gazette-notification law as
o If a citizen
wants, then by visiting Collector‟s office, he can ask Clerk to scan and
put Complaint/RTI application/Proposal
on PM‟s website.
o If a citizen
supports an application, complain etc, then by visiting Talati‟s (Patwari
, Village Officer etc) office, citizen can register his support to an
Complaint/RTI application/Proposal on PM`s website for a Rs 3/- fee.
This transparent complaint procedure will ensure that the citizens` complaint is VISIBLE and VERIFIABLE by anyone, anywhere and anytime so that the complaint cannot be suppressed by the politicians, officials (lokpal etc), judges or media. This procedure will ensure that the evidences are not suppressed.
This is also will serve as a alternate media, whereby every citizen can be a reporter and every citizen a broadcaster. The public can get free, verifiable info via this media. This can help in knowing about public actions of persons and can help the people deciding about which persons and which procedures are good or bad for the country.
Please refer to the full document in www.righttorecall.info/001.pdf
(1) Do all citizens in India have internet to use this law?
This is the most common wrong question I get on proposed TCP-GN. I call it wrong question, because the proposed GN does not at all require the citizens to have an internet connection to begin with. Whether the citizen has internet or not, he must visit the Collector’s office in person to submit his complaint or RTI application. And whether he has internet or not, he must visit Talati’s (Lekhpal, Patwari, Village Officer, VO) (lowest official beneath tehsildar, usually one amongst 4-5 villages and one amongst 4-5 wards , who keep land records ) office in person to register YES on a complaint or affidavit. So internet is not at all required for a citizen to use this law. And even if a person has internet, it would make no difference. So the law can be used by all citizen-voters of India. If he has internet connection, he can read the affidavits with ease. But then so can someone without internet --- he only needs to ask someone who has internet connection.
(2) How does Right to recall law reduce corruption in police?
Why is corruption in US policemen low (except in drugs
The one and only one reason why corruption in US police is low is because citizens in US have procedure to expel District Police Commissioner of their district. So Police Commissioner in US takes very less bribes and also ensures that his staff doesn’t take much bribes. If Police Commissioner in US comes to know that his junior staff is taking bribes, he will immediately run a sting operation, gather evidences and gets them expelled. Because he fears that if corruption in junior staff increases, the citizens may expel him.
The corruption in US police in drugs related cases is because most citizens in US have much bad drug laws. But since in India, citizens have NO procedure to expel Police Chief, the Chief not only collects bribes, he asks his juniors to collect maximal bribes. A typical Police Commissioner keeps half of what he collects and passes the half to MLAs, Home Minister and CM. How come you, the reader, did not know that US citizens can expel their Police Chiefs? Because the EIIs (EII = Eminent Intellectuals of India) do not want citizens of India to know that “US citizens have procedure to expel District Police Chiefs” because EIIs don’t want citizens of India to demand such procedures.
Please see Right to recall by Citizens-District Police Commissioner in chapter 22 of www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf
(3) Later additions to RTR to make it secure and reduce bogus voting
Later on, following features will get added to this proposal. These features are to reduce “bogus voting” and also to counter the argument that “there will be bogus voting and so this procedure must never ever exist”
1. The citizen’s finger print will be in computer so that computer can verify the voter using finger-print identification.
2. A camera will be connected to Patwari’s (Village Officer) computer so that it will scan the picture of the citizen and finger print and store it as well as put it on the receipt of his Yes-No. This way a person is registering too many Yes-No, it would become possible to track and arrest him.
3. The citizen will be given a passbook that will have list of all Yes-No he has registered. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it.
4. Every citizen will get a statement every month showing list of Yes-No he registered in past six months. So if any imposter has registered Yes/No, he will come to know about it.
5. If the citizen wishes, he can register his mobile phone number and he will get SMS when he registers Yes-No. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it immediately.
6. If the citizen wishes, he can register his email address and he will get email when he registers Yes-/No. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it immediately.
This will make Yes-No registration more secure than banking. With these safe-guards, bogus voter will be caught by 5th or 6th try and this will reduce the number of bogus filers. Now “1% of Yes-No may be bogus and so all 72 cr voters must not be allowed to register Yes-No” is a frivolous argument.
(4) Why do eminent intellectuals oppose this RTR GN I demand?
This GN I demand does not require allocation of
hundreds of crores of rupees, does not require allocation of 1000s of staff,
does not require 1000s of buildings or roads. And as per our Constitution as
interpreted by the Citizens, CM does not need approval of MLAs to enact this change.
Yet all parties’ MPs and all eminent intellectuals are hostile to this proposed
Govt Notification. All parties’ leaders have hated this proposal and their CMs
and PM have sworn not to sign this GN we demand. All eminent intellectuals of
India have opposed this proposal and have asked CMs and PM not sign this RTR GN. Why? The process of change happens when
crores of citizens want change and becomes unstoppable when each of these
crores of citizens know that crores of citizens are
with him. Let me repeat this sentence, as the sentence covers theme of all
major changes that citizens brought in past 3000 years.
The process of change happens when crores of citizens have agreed, and crores of citizens know that crores of citizens have agreed.
The “crores of citizens knowing what crores of citizens want” is the “Zero of Political Arithmetic”. The intellectuals and mediamen always try to convince each of the common that he is all alone and rest of the crores of commons are unaware and sleeping. RTR not only enables citizen to file YES/NO on a proposed change, but if crores of citizens have agreed for a change, then all crores of citizens come to know that crores of citizens do want this change. It does not allow media-owners to create an image that “people don’t care”. RTR reduces the power of media-owners in twisting images on priorities of the crores of citizens.
(5) Wont the rich be able to buy out citizens?
The clause-2.1 of proposed Gazette Notification TCP says that any citizen can register YES/NO and it will be transparent. Now cant an elitemen shell out Rs 100 cr and ask 1 cr citizens to register YES? Well, please also read clause-2.2. The citizen can change his YES/NO any day. So if crores of citizens have been paid YES , then next day, nothing stops the citizens from asking for Rs 100 again and Rs 100 next to next day again, or threaten to change YES to NO. Now no one can control crores citizens for even a week even with full army. So the elitemen will end up paying Rs 100 every day to crores of citizens and within weeks or months, they will run out of all the money they have. Suffices to say, clause-2.2 ensures that approvals are unbuyable in the proposed GN.’ So money will not play imp role in proposed Right to Recall procedures.
- Say elitemen decide to buy the citizens and install their own person as LokPal. They will have to bribe 37 crore citizens. say they pay Rs 200 per citizen. Then they have to pay Rs. 7400 crore to get their `YES`
- Since the citizen can cancel his approvals anyday, then the elitemen will have to pay again Rs.7400 crore or more to get the citizens approval.
- And each time the elitemen will have to cough Rs.7400 crore.
- Within months, elitemen would run out their all their generations of savings and assets. All wealth of elitemen in India add to no more than Rs 100,00,000 crores.
- All the money of elitemen would evaporate within 6-12 months. And the elitemen are rational --- they would not waste their money like this and attain nothing. IOW, RTR will ensure that bribe given to citizen is burning away money and results into no gains. So making claims that RTR is something that elitemen can buy away only shows that person is hopelessly unaware of real life calculation. RTR is immune to money power as it gives option to citizens to file same proposal again and again and again and thus collect money again and again and again. This is simply unviable.
Buying voters in election is possible as election comes once in 5 years. But in RTR law-draft I proposed, voters can change approvals anyday, and so buying will fail and no one has criminals to force lakhs and crores of citizens in a district and criminals too cost huge money.
In 1974, when just a few 1000 students came on streets demanding resignation of the them Chief Minister Chimanbhai Patel in Gujarat, Chimanbhai Patel tried all tactics he could but finally costs and logistics went up the roof. Even mightiest of mightiest Indira Gandhi gave up when number of students prisoners in prison crossed 300,000 and the threat of prisons breaking became real. eg In Nandigram, Buddhadev Bhattachrya used all his criminals, but could not force them to sell the land. So this is just reality --- no leader has might and strength to stand agianst even 2% of population.
(6) Is this law unconstitutional?
This law is not unconstitional as it is not binding on the lokpal chairperson,etc., to resign if there are crores of persons supporting another lokpal chairperson although no one can stand such public pressure.
So this law does not go
against any law of the constitution.
If you think RTR is unconstitutional, which clause is of RTR violates which article of Constitution in your opinion ?
(7) Will the LokPal Chairperson or the public servant replaceable by the commons using RTR procedures get replaced every week?
NO, the LokPal chairperson will not get replaced every week.
In most companies, employers have power to fire employees and that does not mean that employers fire employees every day. Worse, most employers look for stable employees and resort to expulsion only when they make some terrible deliberate damage. The citizens will use this procedure not to expel a LokPal Chairperson they dislike and not even to expel a LokPal Chairperson who had made mistakes.
They will use it only when they think that LokPal Chairperson is outrightly corrupt and anti-citizen and they will be ready to pay Rs. 3. It takes intense hatred to think of expulsion and such hatred will come only from blatant back-stabbing, not some minor errors.Also, the fee for poor is Re 1.
procedure of expulsion for Governors in about 20 states. Those states must have
seen about 20*100/4 = about 500 Governors in past 100 years. How many faced
Only three. And how many Governors actually got expelled? Only one. So the mechanism has not created any instability. But has acted as a latent threat on all Governors of US which is one important reasons why they have been less corrupt than top post holders of India.
The Right to Recall clauses give enormous power to citizens over CMs and
PM. Till now, we have bureaucrats/officials with mass base but no mass pressure. The procedure to replace creates a mass pressure on the LokPal. As of now most bureaucrats know that they cant be expelled for 5 years and take the citizens for ride. But with this procedure, he may or may not get replaced, but the threat of replacement will ensure that behaves better than bureaucrats of today.
(8) Is RTR adopted from the west?
NO, Right to Recall is also mentioned in Atharvaved. Atharvaved says that Sabha , assembly of all citizens, can expel the King. Maharshi Dayanand Saraswatijee in chap-6 of Satyarth Prakash explain the Raj-Dharm, and in the first 5 sholkas, Maharshi says – Raja must be “Prajaa-aadhin” i.e. dependent on commons. And in the next shloka, Maharshi says that if Raja is not Prajaa-aadhin, then such a Raja would enter into the nation, rob the citizens and just as a carnivorous animal eats away the other animals, such Raja who is not Prajaa-aadhin would eat and destroy the nation. And Maharshi Saraswatijee has taken both shlokas from Atharvved. And please note – word Raja here includes all Raj-Karmachari i.e. employees of Govt from Supreme Court Chief judge to Patwari (Village Officer). All employees of Govt must be Prajaa-aadhin, or they will rob the citizens.
In India, the intellectuals with 4 digit IQ have insisted opposite of what Atharvaved and Satyarth Prakash say. The intellectuals with 4 digit IQ say that Raja and Raj-Karmachari i.e. Govt. employees should not be Prajaa-aadheen but should be only be BandharaNa-aadheen i.e. dependent on Constitution only. This whole concept of BandharaNa-Aadheen Raja i.e.BandharaNa-aadheen Ministers, officers, policemen and judges is bogus as BandharaNa’s interpretation can be twisted by judges, Ministers etc like a piece of wax.
(9) At first Right to recall should be introduced in organisation like Bharat Swabhiman and observed, then only its real effect will be known.
I am not keen on applying RTR on ANY non-Govt body. Why?
Every citizen has equal right over Govt. But every member does not have equal
right over organization. eg1. I cant have same right
over BST as Swami Ramdevji any senior member. eg2 an
employee of Reliance cant have same rights as Mukesh Ambani. We must have
equality inside Govt. But not necessarily inside
organization. I dont oppose RTR inside BST, but I dont demand as I dont
have "right to demand RTR inside BST", as my role in creating BST is
negligible compared seniors.
(10) (i) Most of the population lives in villages. To register a
complaint only, one will have to move scores of kms to the offices of Village
Officer/Tehsildar/DM Office from a resident of a village. These offices are the
headquarters of touts and musclemen. A poor fellow in remote areas,
first has to waste his energy, time, money and then leave the chances of being
'soft target' by unscrupulous persons.
(ii) Why would it not encourage further redtapism, beaurocracy, eliticism?
(i) Later additions in RTR will enable persons to file complaints from
1. Any Collector Office
2. Any Tahsildaar office
3. Any Magistrate's Courts
4. Any Sub-Registrar Office
I made rough guess as follow : India's area is 3287590 sq km. Divide this by 265,000 Gram Panchayats. We get average area as 12.5 sq km, which would square of 3.5 km * 3.5 km. If Talati's (Village Officer) office is at center, then fartherest person will be at the corner, some 3 km away. Hence average distance of Village Officer Office is between 3 and 5 km in most of cases.
(ii) There will be no red-tapeism as officers have no discretionary power to say NO.
Also, say if one can’t register complaint in his district, he can always ask a friend of him to register complaint in any of the 700 districts of India.
RTR requires that person who is putting complaint must be fingerprinted and photographed. So in any office which has a gazetted officer, or officer authorized to verify persons can accept RTR applications.
(11) The PM cannot pass this
law just by notification without any legislation.
If it does not require any legislation then why not will any forthcoming PM/CM remove or ammend it by a new notification or signature?
How will you introduce a draft
as PM when 90% of MPs are corrupt?
Will they not oppose any draft of public interest and remove the PM?
The PM and 2-8 top leaders using anti-defection law can change any law within hours, and NO MP would oppose. eg just before May-2009 election, PM and top leaders forced MPs to pass about 12 legislations in one day !! And PM (Cabinet) has powers to declare emergency and set aside every law and whole of Constitution. It happened once and can happen again. At the end of the day, support to a law-draft comes from -- do people find it useful? . If people find a law immensely useful, then PM will realize that cost of cancelling that law-draft will be open invitation to violent actions from citizens. This is one reason why I want mass-movement to enact RTR. If a law comes via agitation from citizens, it will become more difficult for any PM to cancel it.
Some links of executive notification by cabinet-
RTR is a Govt Notification. Govt Notification can be
signed by PM (Cabinet) without approval of MPs. Later, MPs may remove that GN
and may also remove PM.
Which is why, I am calling for mass movement to force PM to sign RTR-GN. I do not want to depend on elections and election outcomes to get RTR signed
(12) For registering complaint we need separate department. It cannot be done through collector or from his clerk or even by patwari (Village Officer) who are already overloaded with work and whose job description is different.
Once PM (Cabinet) signs RTR, these activities will become part of job description of DM and Patwari (Village Officer). The complaint registration is not by collector himself but by his clerk. All depts at District level directly or indirectly come under DM. If DM is overloaded, he can always ask for so called "Additional DM" or "Assistant DM". And eventually, the work will be done by some Executive Magistrate or Clerk, and he can hire more Clerks if he needs. Now scanning and uploading one page takes 5 minutes. So if there is no rush, one clerk is sufficient. And say rush is high. Then in one hour, clerk can scan and upload 12 pages; and in one day, he can upload some 100 pages. Then revenue collected per day is Rs 2000. That is more than enough to pay salary and cover all costs. And for clause-2, if Patwari(Village Officer) is overloaded, DM can hire a clerk in Patwari's (Village Officer) office for this job. Rs 3 fee will cover all costs including salary of clerk.
(13) 40-50% people do not come out to votes. Then, how will this system work?
In 2004, some 60% people voted. And in 2009, voting % was round about the same. And people dont vote much because they see all winnable candidates alike - equally good or equally bad.
That was in one day. If your see the procedures of recall, it is different from the voting procedure. The approvals can be given any day. Voting is done in one day .
And considering the fact that 5-10%, people in list are either away from their constituency or dead, actual approvals in RTR procedures can be upto 90 % , that is more than in voting procedures.
And in recall, threat of recall alone is sufficient to reduce corruption.
And the percentage of approvals will also depend on whether the affidavit is directly beneficial for the people or not.
Example, if someone puts a affidavit saying to make me PM, then maybe no one will support that but if it is written in affidavit that Narendra Modi (or some well known person doing good public work) should be made PM, then the number of approvals will be in crores.
(14) Common man cannot make the judgement of whom to remove and who to keep, only those who have knowledge of law can decide.
Who will evaluate the performance of bureaucrats ? When 80 crs+ people live on 20rs/day how we expect them to do this performance evaluation job.
What procedure & standards do you propose to judge the performance of nodal officers, bureaucrats etc.?
Common man is defined as a person who does not have political connections and is usually poor or from middle class which includes 95% or more of Indians. Every common man knows which neta is corrupt and not doing his work properly. Only, he does not have the right/power to give his decision. Do you think the common man has so low IQ that they cannot know who is corrupt?
Common people know whether their police commissioner , district education officer, district supply officer etc are corrupt or not. They will go by common sense. eg if they are getting 9.5 liters of kerosene instead of 10 liters, they will probably tolerate. But if the goes below 9 liters, District supply Officer will get expelled. In other words, citizens based on day today experience will very well decide how well their officers are doing.
In the procedure code proposed to replace District Education Officer etc, each citizen uses his own standard, and based on discretion of majority recall is decided. The recall procedure proposed costs Rs 0 on tax payers. It causes no instability in administration. The fear of recall will improve performance and reduce corruption.
(15) Is this a plebiscite/referendum? What is difference between`Citizens voice` (TCP) Transparent Complaint Procedure and referendum?
This is not a referendum since
in referendum, once the vote or approval is cast, the person cannot change it. Also , here a person can give approvals to at most five
This eliminates the possibiity of buying out the voters.
`Citizens voice`(RTI 2)Transparent Complaint procedure is far far superior than "referendum". TCP is far less prone to rigging. In TCP, voter can go any day, in referendum he has only one day. And cost of referendum will be at least Rs 10 per to Rs 30 per voter (existing cost of election) where as in TCP it is Rs 3 per voter.
(16) How do we get RTR procedures?
RTR law draft can be passed trivially using CITIZENS VOICE. But without CITIZENS VOICE, it will take you perhaps ages and ages to get RTR passed. In other words, time taken to get CITIZENS VOICE passed = T, then Time taken to pass RTR via CITIZENS VOICE is (T + 3 months) . While time taken to pass RTR without Citizens Voice is 10 * T. That is because RTR draft is 6 pages long, and it will be take weeks for one activist to communicate from one activist to another. Whereas CITIZENS VOICE is something one activist can communicate to another activist in one day.
(17) We already have the system to handle complaint and grievances of public and in the last court but the problem is lack of awareness of the citizens.
The diagnosis is very wrong. You are blaming victims. Essentially, you say that "victims lack awareness and so problems exist". This is like saying that women get raped and reason is lack of awareness in women, and so women are guilty. I strongly oppose these "blame the victim" logic. The reason why courts etc have failed is rampant corruption in judges and rampant nepotism in judges. We see that Supreme Court Chief justice Khare gave bail to convicted pedophiles and enabled them to escape out of India. And we saw that Justice Ahmedi reduced charges against accused in Bhopal cases. These cases are NOT due to lack of awareness as you say, but only due to rampant bribery in Honorable Supreme Court Justices. And the judges are rampantly taking bribes because we citizens dont have procedures to expel judges and we citizens dont have procedures to execute judges using majority vote. I have proposed 100% Constitutionally valid procedures using which we citizens can expel, imprison or even execute (corrupt) Ministers, IAS, IPS and judges using majority vote . Now question is how can these procedures be enacted? CITIZENS VOICE is easy tool to get these procedures enacted. Thats where power of CITIZENS VOICE is. CITIZENS VOICE is a tool to get several laws enacted.
(18) Who will communicates these numerous issues, complaint etc to the general public and for it from where the fund will come?
Those who want to communicate will communicate. eg when
one contests election, the burden of ensuring that people get copy of his
manifesto is on him, not on the Govt.The `Citizens voice-Transparent complaint
/ proposal system ` , when in place, will give verified information and always
And whether a complaint etc. affidavit will spread amongst the commons will depend on whether the affidavit is beneficial for the masses or not. Example, MRCM (Mineral Royalty for Commons and Military) draft will spread very fast via word of mouth, pamphlets, advertisements etc.since the commons will get 100% ethical, their rightful, 400-500 rupees per month. So, this affidavit will spread with very less campaigning and with very less expenses.
(19) What is meaning of term `may`? What is the meaning of `PM may resign`?
There is no meaning to do so much effort if the law is not binding.
If 50 cr citizens register YES on a draft, and if PM decides not sign that draft and not to resign, that it will be the last PM who takes such decision. The resulting events will ensure that no PM in future will defy citizens. eg in 1650 British King defied Parliament which represented only 4% of citizens. Due to events which followed, no King in UK has dared to defy Parliament since then.
The word "may" is ensure that the clauses are constitutionally valid !! It is to ensure that Constitution-bhagats, who might claim that proposed law is unconstitutional, can be easily asked to shut up. Otherwise, the words "37 cr " carry a force more potent than nukes.
Basically, I have figured out a way of establishing increasing democractic-ness in India without any change in any law and any change in Constitution. And that way is to draft the phrase as "if over 37 cr voters approve then officer may or need not ....". Hell, if 37 cr voters approve, the officer in clause will obey , or else the next officer who will take the place of the deceased one will obey. I wont worry about possibility of officer such as PM not obeying 37 cr citizens. I would let him worry about it. All in all, possibility that MPs will use "may" against wish of 37 cr commons is academic=useless in nature.
Some people may see `PM may resign` as a pressure tactic of the PM.
(20) What about those issues where interests of the people clash with the interests of the nation ?
I have not come across even one hypothetical law-draft which people at large will support and it goes against interest of nation. After all, nation is people. Can you cite a law-draft which you think 52% will register YES and goes against interest of nation? Why would citizens under-pay officers? If so how many employers offer Rs 0 salary to employees? Why not? Because every employer knows than no one can work for below market rates.
If there is any issue or law of the district or state which clashes with the interests of the nation, then the citizens of the nation, can remove that issue or law a majority approval using TCP
(21) Do you know what is the literacy in US and how much is in India?
You are forgetting that US people get a lot better health care, education, other infrastructure. They have access to internet, telephones better than we have access to food and shelter. You cant get a bunch of US people bribed with tea and snacks to vote against someone because they are well aware and well developed unlike people here.
Above is a senseless question asked 10s of time. The recall procedures in US have been in since 1830s when literacy was below 5% in voters. In most US states, even as late as 1900s, most US voters had low literacy and awareness. The recall works on trivial principles --- commons tolerate minor irregularities (like police chief taking bribes from some gambling den) and react furiously against major crime (like police chief supporting career criminal). And so despite low literacy in past, recall ensured low corruption police chiefs throughout US history.
US has lot of education etc because corruption has been low in US since 1760s, and corruption has been low mainly because of RTR (and JurySys, a similar concept). And bribery is common in US where RTR doesnt exist. eg US doesnt have RTR over Senators, and so most Senators in US are corrupt.
The citizens will approve some alternate candidate ONLY if and when
1. Existing PM is utterly hopeless (eg MMS, Deshmukh, Mayawati,
2. Alternative is far far superior (no existing neta for that matter)
And most people will approve someone who has proved himself as district/state level. E.g. Majority of UPites know that Mayawati is corrupt and should be expelled ASAP. If they had replacement procedures, most UPites would approve some IAS, IPS or Mayor who has proved himself at District level.
(22) How can the fee of adding the name to the complaint at the Patwari (Village Officer) office, Rs. 3 cover all operational and salary costs ? What is the cost of RTR procedures ?
I can show that salary of the clerk, the cost of the PC, cost of server, cost of bandwidth etc everything is feasible. One clerk can register about 200-300 YES/NO. So that would fetch Rs 600 to Rs 900. A clerk needs no more salary than Rs 150 to rs 300 a day. The servers are available for free up to 100 MB data and cost as low as Rs 1000 per month for 200 GB data. The PCs are Rs 25000 a piece with OS cost and will be covered in few days. So startup cost is low, and as number of YES/NO increases it would increase but would get covered by Rs 3 fee.
The expense on Govt is ZERO. Yes, zero. And each person who wants to a change has to give Rs 3 fee and when secure SMS protocol comes (which can come today if TRAI signs a paper), cost reduces to below 1 paise per citizen !!
And how much would RTR cost? Rs 200 cr withour secure SMS
and barely Rs 3 cr when secure SMS comes. Is that too much a cost in YOUR
Now do you believe that people should be allowed to file cases in courts? Well, filing case in courts is 100 times more expensive than process I listed. So if my process is too expensive IYO, courts are also expensive. So IYO, people should be banned from filing cases in courts , right ? !! Or, if you are fine with the process of filing cases in courts, which is far more expensive than filing YES/NO, why do oppose letting commons register YES/NO.
(23) (i) What if the contents of the complaint are defamatory ?
(ii) If the complainer is unable to successfully prove the complaint, then can he/she be sued for defamation ?
(i) ANY affidavits can be placed, and if the contents are
defamatory etc, the postor shall pay dearly(when sued)
and the affidavit will be taken down.Any court of law can order the removal of
the affidavit. And later, one can add laws that would suspend his posting
rights for several years. Same as media --- media can print anything, and it is
liable for what it prints. But no can in general can
stop a mediamen from printing pre-facto (before the fact is committed).
(ii) Any complainer can go to the collector office and file in affidavit demanding that narco in public be conducted on him/her (see chapter 27, www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf) . This will prove that whether the complainer is telling truth or lies and defamation case will not be put on the genuine complainer.
(24) How will the complaint spread and how much time it will take to spread ?
It depends on how beneficial the complaint/proposal is to the common people and masses. A complaint which is of lakhs of people like Beating of sleeping people at Ramlila maidan on June 4,2011 if filed with demand of removal of police commissioner will spread like fire and lakhs of people will come to add their names at patwari (Village Officer) office.
Now internet is available to about 4% to 5% of population of India. Say 5 crores of 116 crores commons have internet. Out of these 5 crores, some 4.90 crores are kind of people, who would oppose even giving 1% of PM's servers' diskspace to commons. But some 10 lakh people in these 5 crores do care for commons. So when these 10 lakh well to do people with internet see a pro-common affidavit on web, they will try to propagate it using (i)pamphlets (ii)word of mouth (iii)newspaper ad, and thus the information will reach 5 crore to 10 crore of commons. And if the affidavit has pro-common points, then these 5 crore commons will spread the information to remaining 110 crore commons. So publicity route for pro-common affidavit is : PM's website -> 10 lakh pro-common in from top 5cr of India -> pamphlets, meetings, word of mouth -> 5 crore commons -> word of mouth -> 100 cr commons.
So the process is not restricted to those who have internet. And even if he has internet, no one can read 100s of affidavits that would come in a day. So eventually, the process is run by word of mouth only aided by pamphlets etc.
(25) Will language not be a barrier for spreading of the complaint/proposal?
This language issue is not a flaw of the proposal. It is because India is multi lingual. And PM/CMs etc are always free to put official translation of the affidavits, which they need not do for each affidavit but can do when an affidavit gets a threshold of say 1% . And this is not a law making system, where translation would be of paramount importance. This is opinion gathering system only.
(26) So a citizen would wish to change his selection almost on a regular basis.
That is purely YOUR assumption. Say there are 10cr single women of age 18-45. A husband has right to divorce his wife and marry any of these 10cr women. So do you husbands change spouse everyday?NO.
A person is free to change job any day. So does he change everyday?
(27) Your procedure does not ensure privacy of voting - this can have serious negative repurcussions for voters in light of the feudal system still prevalent in pockets of India. What do you have to say to this?
Firstly, these are transparent procedures, in which anyone can see and verify the information anytime and anywere, so that the voice of the people is not suppressed. But if for any reason, anyone wants to make a complaint or support some person in a secret manner, other options are also available. These procedures are only proposed as a alternative transparent way, the secret way will also will be available.
And What is secret these days? You credit card statement is know to Govt. Your bank statement is know to Govt. When you file complaint in police, courts etcall names are disclosed. If nothing happens after all these information being... public or semi-public, what can publishing approvals do?
In some of procedures I have proposed at local level, such replacement of District Police Chief, confidentiality is there. In the replacement procedures I proposed for PM, CM replacement, there is NO confidentiality. I have also drafted a confidential version - the cost is higher but cost on govt and voter is zero, I will later post it here. But does lack of confidentiality do any harm when replacing PM? No, it does not.
1. In the procedure I proposed, replacement will happen if over 24 cr citizens have approved a person. To force 24 cr citizens, an Army of 10,00,00 and police of 15,00,000 will fall short. And policemen and soldiers are not going to agree to do this. So the leader would need about 50,00,000 private criminals to force 24 cr citizens. No one in world can create a gang of even 5000 criminals. When gang size reaches that high, the person has to become pro-citizen, and cant afford to be anti-citizen. In case you have noticed, the criminals try to victimize new-rich and only a handful of commons, the criminals never dare to victimize established rich or a large number of commons --- it simply does not work out. So the fear that someone will manage to force even 1 cr voters, forget 24 cr voters, is too unrealistic.
2. The citizens can file/cancel approvals any day. So the gangleader will have to put gangmen around Talati's (Village Officer) office everyday. Election comes once in 5 years. So you may put 2-5 gang men at booth for a day, But putting gangmen to stop EVERYDAY is not viable. Also, in later versions of the procedure, the person can file his approval at Talati's (Village Officer) office, Tahsil office, Collector's office, Post Offices. No gang leader is strong enough to block citizens from visiting all these places throughout the year.
3. The feudal system you mentions will fall apart when a 2% to 4% wealth tax on land above 5 acre per family members comes and an inheritance tax of 35% over Rs 1 cr comes. Next, when citizens get procedures to expel District Police Chief (which is confidential) and SC-Cj, HC-Cj, District Chief judges etc, these officials will have no options but to beat the cr1p out of criminals. So all these feudal lords will vanish within 3 months after recall procedures arrive.
4. And finally, please note that the procedures I have proposed become law via FIRST proposed law aka Citizens Voice-`Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` law. So if people think that open voting is bad, then `Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` law will ensure that open voting based procedure to replace PM will not get enacted and instead the procedure which uses confidential voting might come. IOW, my point is, the MTMT law is filter against all "bad" proposals.
(28) What if the public website used for Transparent Complaint procedure and right to recall procedures such as PM website is hacked?
The website will be the most protected website, stronger than of any bank. If a hacker can hack this website, he will have to hack crores of accounts and the risk is lot in this case and benefit not much. Such hacker would rather hack some bank website where risk to be caught is less and gains much more.
Please see the procedure. the hacker changes the code or whatever, this website will be watched by crores of people. Say in RTR-PM , the approvals for say ,Swami ji as PM are cancelled, then the supporters of Swami Ramdev will come to know ...by net ( and later by SMS, passbooks, etc) that their approval status is changed. And other people can also see such drastic change in support and the hacker will be most probably be caught. Since this website is visible to crores of people. So, this risk is not worth it for the hacker. He would rather hack a bank website where the number of people watching that site are less and so chances of getting caught is less and gains much more. And say the hacker cancels the approval of Swami ji, even then the supporters of Swami ji can renew their approvals, so all efforts of hacker goes waste. No hacker is that stupid to hack with this safeguard`Any citizen can change/cancel their approvals any day.`
Another thing is that there will be sufficient backup on
three-four servers, at the time the complaint is given to collector or YES/NO
given at patwari (Village Officer) office. | Only the local server has
facility to write the data and every local server will be protected by
password. From the local server, data will go to the Central server and other
backup servers but they will have only read facility, data cannot be erased and
So, the hacker will be frustrated as there will be not ANY loss of data if there is proper backup, which will be likely the case.
In TCP, complaint is scanned at Collector's office in
front of complainer, and within seconds, several copies come in dozens of
servers such as servers of Collector's office, CM's office, PM's office, etc.and
within minutes, several copies will come on servers of Google, FB etc.
Now one system admin or PM can delete copy on his server. But that will leave an unused serial number or he will have to decrease serial number of several complaints by 1 or he will have to replace deleted complaint by something else. In any case, PM's server will mismatch with servers of collector, CM etc.
So to temper/delete complaint and remain uncaught, one will need to temper too much of data in too many servers. To do so and not get noticed by thousands of people is as difficult as impossible. If one can do this, he will better rob a bank's server.
Approval filing is safer that bank transaction : Not just the person walks to Talati’s (Village Officer) office to file approval, he gets SMS feedback similar to credit card usage and the equipment will take his pix and finger print. Of course, on day-one, these features wont be available, but any Collector can implement them in 3 to 6 months or else citizens should demand his expulsion. With picture, finger print and SMS feedback, the system is safer than bank transaction. If someone can hack this system, he will rather hack a backing system.
(29) In the right to recall procedures such as RTR-PM etc, will the citizens not give approvals on caste lines?
A- It is false propaganda that common man votes on casteist and religious lines , e.g. Mayawati got votes of Brahmins.
Secondly, Castes are further split into sub-castes. If anyone tries to woo a particular caste or sub-caste, he/she will end up not be chosen since the numbers of subcaste/caste are not enough for the candidate to become PM, CM etc. The numbers of any sub-castes at state level is not more than 10% and to become CM or PM, at least 35% approvals are needed. And other castes may not vote for him/her as the candidate will be labelled as pro a particular caste.
(30) Can not these procedures be influenced by media or goons ?
NO. Because there is a safeguard that` Any voter can change his/her approval or Yes/No by going to the patwari (Village Officer) office and giving Rs.3`.
These procedures will override the media`s influence as they themselves are a alternate media giving verifiable and always visible information about the complaint, candidates for PM etc and their supporters. The people will rely more on the complaint supported by lakhs of people rather than any media reports.
And any media or goons used as a influence cost money and their use cannot be continued for long. As soon as their influence finishes, the person even if influenced by them, will be able to change his/her approval and all the effort to influence via media or goons will go to waste.
In RTR-Lokpal (or almost any RTR procedures I have proposed), the citizen can file/change approval by paying Rs 3 fee at Patwari (Village Officer) officer any day. So one would need goons everyday . And to stop 37 crore people or even 5 cr people, one needs lakhs or goons. No one has so many goons, and no one can hire so many goons for days and weeks. Even if PM manages to use entire police force of 15,00,000 , he will not be able to stop so many commons.
(31) (i) Will Right to recall
work with lower positions ?
(ii) Why we need RTR procedures on posts not elected by citizen-voters of India like Lokpal, PM, Reserve Bank Governor of India, District Education Officer, District Police Commissioner, Supreme Court Chief Justice etc.
(iii) Why do we need RTR over PM, lokpal , judge etc central positions if we have RTR over MPs. Can we not put pressure over MPs via RTR-MP to force the PM, lokpal, judge to work in the interest of the citizens of the country ?
A- (i) We need Right to recall
over all postitions which have discretionary powers and which have authority
over at least one lakh voters. Lower positions have less discretionary power
and the authority can influence less number of citizens .
Therefore for lower positions, jury sytem (randomly selected people from
district, state etc give judgements) is more beneficial.
(ii) The purpose of RTR procedure is to make the post
accountable DIRECTLY to the people. A authority is accountable to that person
who has the power to remove the authority.If the authority is accountable to a
regulator like super-lokpal or super-super lokpal, MNCs can buy out both the
lokpal and the super-lokpal or even the super-super lokpal because they are few
in number but the MNCs cannot buy out or influence crores of common people.
Thus, the RTR will act as a deterrent in 99% of the cases when RTR procedures
are in place and in 1% of the cases, the corrupt person will be replaced by a honest person.
(iii) If there is only right to recall over MPs and not right to recall over PM, then how the citizens will come to know about MPs in their district and how will they communicate with the other citizens of the country and how will they tell other citizens what is their choice for alternate PM if the present PM is not working in the interest of the country ? And how will they communicate with other citizens of the district and tell which MP they like ?
For communication with other citizens of the country and the district, Right to recall-PM and Transparent Complaint / Proposal Procedure (TCP) is needed for the commons. And also the MPs do not have any procedure to expel the MPs or Judges so that they can pressurise the MPs/Judges to work in the interest of the country. So, Right to recall over Judges, Right to recall over lokpal is needed.
If there is only RTR-MP and no RTR-PM, how will the citizens communicate with their respective MP and with the other citizens of the country what is their choice for alternative PM, in case sitting PM is not working in the interest of the country ? How will they communicate with the people of the districts which MP they want ?
For this , they need RTR-PM and Citizens Voice-`Transparent Complaint procedure`.
And MPs have no authority to remove lokpal or judges, so they will not be able to put pressure on them , in working for the interest of the country.
(32) We need better electoral reforms like 100 % voting, None of the above (to reject all candidates) instead of Right to recall procedures. We need elections to choose good people who will bring about these reforms.
A- M.N. Roy, the first person who wrote constitution of India called `Draft Constitution of India` in 1946 said that" Without recall over legislators, elections will be useless." And even Rajiv Dixit ji said "First Right to recall, then Elections" If there is no right to recall over the netas, we , the common people cannot remove the neta when they become corrupt. But if we have a procedure to anytime remove/replace the corrupt, then this will serve as a `hanging sword` over the neta and the neta will do their job better rather than indulge in corruption. But without recall procedures, 99% of the authorities become corrupt after getting power. And God did not put stamps on people`s foreheads that they can know the 1% who will not become corrupt. Therefore, `First Right to recall, then Elections`.
The procedure of negative voting is effective only at the time of elections. The candidate which is `honest` or has a honest image sells out after the elections. And the commons have no control over the authority for five years. Moreover, in case of judges, PM,CM which are not elected, the commons have no control over them what so ever.
That is why we need procedures by which the authorities are accountable to the citizens at all times.
`None of the above` option at the time of elections gives power to reject a candidate to the voter only at the time of elections. But after the elections, the authority will not be accountable to the masses and will work against the interests of the public.
`100 % compulsory voting` is useless without the authorities like police and judges accountable to the public and even can be harmful. The corrupt judges and police can misuse this law to blackmail and take bribes from those persons who due to some circumstances cannot vote.
Making a law for 100% compulsory voting and imposing fine for those who did not vote will lead to misuse of this law by the police/judges who can blackmail and take bribes from those who for some compulsion cannot vote like being away from home, etc.
At present, many people do not vote and show lack of interest in country affairs as they have to chose the less bad from among the bad and criminal candidates. The corrupt judges and police give protection to the goondas, who prevent and discourage honest people from entering politics, but with recall procedures such as RTR-supreme court chief justice and RTR- police commissioner in place, the goondas will not be protected by the judges and police , so honest people will enter politics or will be bought by the public via recall procedures. Thus, interest of voters and the voting percentage will also increase naturally once recall procedures are in place.
While if the RTR procedures are in place , RTR will act as a deterrent against corruption in 99% of the cases and in 1% of the cases, the corrupt will be replaced by the honest. In this way, with full rights , the people will also take more interest in voting and country affairs since they know they have the power to replace the corrupt.
The one pattern which is always seen and never an exception is : an official behaves well only if citizens have procedures to expel/imprison him. If commons have no procedure to expel/imprison him, no matter how is chosen --- direct election, indirect election, written exam etc --- he is always corrupt.
One example is ancient Greece, where many officials were appointed by lottery !! And yet corrupt was low, because a complaint of corruption was decided up on a Jury of 200, 400 or 600 citizens depending on level of the accused (wealthier and the more powerful the accused, more the number of Jurors). This Jury had powers to expel him as well as execute him. So officers in Greece behaved well, and complaint of corruption was low. Whereas in India, we have 10s of checks and balances, and 10s of institutions , 10s of safe guards, 10s of audits and 10s of disclosures. But no procedure by which citizens can expel/punish officers. And so almost all officers we see are corrupt.
(33) How can the citizens threaten/force the PM/CM etc to
sign Citizens voice-`Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` Gazette
To force the PM/CM, we have to do a solution-draft lead, activist guided, Udham Singh centric mass-movement. One example of that is the 1977 anti-emergency mass-movement, in which all the netas were jailed, but still lakhs of activists knew what to do and so the government had to give in.
The leader based movement can be very easily suppressed by the enemy/opponents since in that each activist does not work without taking orders from the leader and the opponents just have to buyout the leader or suppress the leader or jail leader or kill the leader to finish the movement. Example- Anna`s andolan and Swami Ramdev`s BST movement.
Meaning of Udham Singh
Udham Singh or Udham Singhs are those persons who are brave, willing to take risk of life, patriotic, intelligent, work alone without anyone`s orders. To bring about positive change in the country, they do not indulge in time-wasting methods which ultimately result in lot of violence like Anshan, dharna, etc and they adopt most non-violent methods to bring about positive change in the country. They act according to the common opinion of the masses for obtaining the rights of the commons from the authorities and therefore they have support of the crores of commons. Some examples of Udham Singh or Udham Singhs – Bhagat Singh, Udham Singh, Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, revolting Indian Navy Soldiers of 1946, activists of anti-emergency movement, 1977, etc.
Today, the citizens and the country needs quick, short term democratic, solutions to the burning problems of the country besides law-drafts solutions which can be brought via real mass-movement , similar to the mass-movements of Emergency,1975 and Indian Navy Revolt , 1946.
The best short term relief for the burning problems of the country is to do mass campaign of solution-drafts via advertisements / pamphlets. Along with that, we can also have a missed call number where people can register their support.
These are democratic methods for bringing good procedures for the country which will succeed if activists take part. Non-democratic methods such as cheering your leader, slogan shouting, bhashans, closed door discussions, campaigning for neta, anshans, candle light marches etc. will fail to bring any change in the system and country.
These methods actively involve the masses, who are the stake-holders in the country and so these democratic methods are powerful and succeed, while those methods which actively involve only a few persons and not the masses, are weak and undemocratic and fail to bring any positive change in the system.
Even before the procedures are actually printed in gazette notification , via mass-campaign of these procedure-drafts via ads/pamphlets , we can threaten the public servants to behave. If the masses know these procedure-drafts,the public servants will fear that if they do not behave, the masses will demand these procedures and these procedures will come. These procedures enable the commons to punish/replace the corrupt.
In other words, the threat of these procedures coming is also effective and will force the public servants to behave.
We need at least 2-4 lakh activists, who will spend 15-20 hours per month to promote good solution law-drafts and few crores of commons to bring about any positive change in the system and country.
Should a common request PM etc or should a common threaten them within legal limits. Depends on citizen's view on PM/CM/etc. If a common believes that PM etc are honest people, he should request. If citizen believes that PM etc are dishonest people, he should threaten them within legal limits. And if a citizen thinks that PM is dishonest, CM is honest, Mayor is dishonest etc, then should threaten PM, request CM, threaten Mayor etc. How to threaten PM etc within legal limits? It can be
a. I will not vote for your party
b. I will take rally against you
c. I will gherao PMO or your party's offices
d. I will insult you in public within legal limits
e. I will call you 'gali gali mein shor hai' in public rally
f. "I will appeal to Bhagat Singh type committed young men to join me against you"
and so forth.
(34) After the Citizens Voice-`Transparent Complaint/Proposal Procedure(TCP)`comes, there will be complaints of crores of people which will put burden on the system ?
If you are talking about post-TCP world, then how will crores of affidavits do damage? Rs 20 is charged per page and will cover all the costs including salaries. Scanning one page will take say 100 kb. Say 1 cr affidavit-pages are filed. That takes 1,00,00,000 * 100 kb = 1000,000 MB = 10000 GB = 10 TB = Rs 60,000 of disk space.
And revenue for scanning 1 cr proposals is Rs 20 cr. Add salary costs etc and still TCP draft is not causing any loss to GoI. And how will submitting 10 cr proposals hurt anyone in India?
The collector and the patwari (Village Officer) can increase the number of staff required and the whole system is `use and pay` , will be self-sufficient, without any burden on Government or anyone.
It is not binding for the authorities to attend to each and every complaint or even any complaint as this is a opinion-gathering system. But the authorities cannot afford to ignore the complaint which is of lakhs of people.
(35) Why do we not use private website for putting public complaints in the manner as Transparent Complaint Procedure?
As per setting "private website for public complaints", it has no value. No one will have faith in what my website says. eg I can post an affidavit saying "Hang corrupt MMS", and in two months say 5 crore citizens register YES. Then would you agree that I didnt fake the numbers? If I am running private-TCP website, you will call me fake-fraud. If you run private-TCP website I will call you fake-fraud. Next, someone will call me Congress agent, and next someone else will call you BJP agent. Govt-website is least unreliable --- please note, least unreliable, same as most reliable. In fact, all private website have near zero reliability on all political matters as owners can fake any numbers he wants. Just look at paid surveys and paid news. Given that numbers have no reliability, no one would bother registering YES/NO.
Now the proposed law is NOTHING but a law that would allow to put complaints of us commons on PM's website in a way that everyone can read. Pls re-read the 3 clauses. The 3rd clause has no LEGAL value and is not a moral binding. And 2nd clause can be removed and the law still has same effect, but collector's staff will be overloaded. eg if 500000 people have a complain, and if there is only clause-1 and no clause-2, then 500000 people will be registering same affidavit, which is loss-loss situation. So clause-2 is only to reduce the burden of system and nothing else. Hence the law is just a forum to register complaints and RTI application on PM's website.
ANY affidavits can be placed, and if the contents are defamatory etc, the postor shall pay dearly and the affidavit will be taken down. And later, one can add laws that would suspend his posting rights for several years. Same as media --- media can print anything, and it is liable for what it prints. But no can in general can stop a mediamen from printing pre-facto(before the fact is committed).
The Collector can delegate the task to his clerk in Tahsils, if and when he decides and facilities are available. The facility must have a decent camera to record the person who is submitting affidavit, scan his finger prints and also scan his IDs. So it can go to village level in near future. But walking to Collector's office or Tahsil office is easier than filing PIL for which one needs to go to HCjs or SCjs and pay hefty bribes.
(36) How will a person in a village know/choose a post of national level like PM, etc?
Today, a person in a village or small town, to know any news about a place far away from him , has to rely on newspaper, T.V or other media . But the media is paid, and it has only that news for which it gets money. So, that news is not reliable.
But when the `Citizens Voice-Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` comes and via that Right to recall-PM etc recall procedures come, anyone can put news about a person etc. in their affidavits to the collector and if lakhs and crores of people, who also have to verify themselves by voter id and fingerprint scan at the patwari (Village Officer) office, support that , then that news will be reliable. In other words, these democratic procedures will by themselves become a alternative media and give reliable,verified, news.
In the first round, the information will spread by word of mouth. In the second round, because there will be a alternate, citizens media giving information verifiable by any citizen, today`s paid media will be forced to carry true news or close business.
(37) Why do we need RTR over MPs and lower posts if we have RTR-PM ?
First of all, all these drafts will come by mass objective approval via T.C.P (Transparent Complaint / Proposal Procedure) . When the PM is forced to print TCP in Gazette, next day, I or anyone else can ask these draft-affidavits to be scanned and put on PM website at collector office and these drafts will come via objectively provable approval and pressure of crores of commons.
India has 700 districts and each district has 20-30 nodal head like Collector, SP, DEO, District Supply Officer etc. There is no way PM alone can manage 700*30 = 21000 heads. So PM will have to depend on a staff of supervisors between him and 21000 district heads. This staff has no glory to gain -- if they supervise well, all credit will go to PM. So these intermediate supervisors will become source of corruption as well as lethargy. Also, district heads have no glory to gain if they perform well. So they too will do only what is asked by supervisors and will stop being creative.
Where in RTR-over-all, each sees that public feedback can not just punish him, but also later promote him in more areas and at higher level. eg in RTR-DEO procedure I have proposed (see chap-30 of 301.pdf ) , if a citizens can appoint a person as DEO of upto 10 districts. Hence he has reason, motive to be creative and improve. If he works under PM with no RTR over him, he has no reason to be creative and improve beyond what is asked to do.
(38) What damage will happen to the country and country people including elite in absence of democratic procedures ? What is the use for us these democratic procedures ? We should instead do social work like teaching poor kids, etc. to improve the condition of the country. We need a strong leader as PM to get these democratic procedures implemented.
absence of democratic procedures like TCP, RTR over PM, CM, judges, etc, Jury
system, etc, the courts, police will be unfair and favour the MNCs and let them
increase their dominance over the country.
Increasing MNC dominance over administration, judiciary, media, regulatory bodies like lokpal will be accompanied by destruction of local industries, weakening of maths/science education of the country, destruction of the country`s agriculture, no real manufacturing in the country and the country will be dependent on the MNCs. All or majority of the goods will be imported, there will be further weakening the military of the country (already military is very weak), increase of influx of illegal Bangladeshis which can lead anytime to foreign invasion.
Today, more and poor are
turning towards Naxalism and/or Christianist missionaries or both for good food, medicine,
education etc. Eventually, this will lead to militancy, as it did in Nepal and
worsen the strife in areas such as Orissa, parts of AP, parts of MP, parts of
The country will eventually split into many Philippine like MNC puppet, economic-slave countries or become slave country like Iraq. After economic or physical enslavement, 99% of the people of the country will be looted and raped including the elite.
or a strong leader, even if becomes PM, is not so powerful to counter the might
of the MNCs. The MNCs today have control over most of mainstream media, organised
social media, Judiciary, NGOs. Using their influence over paid media, they
create clones and time-wasters like Anna, Arvind Kejriwal, Subramaniam Swamy so
as to bring about a split vote with no clear majority for any party or group of
parties, which is easier to manipulate for the MNCs. MNC sponsored Paid media projects fake and phony people like The Anna
and Arvind Kejriwal as solutions, and activists get one sided information,
become their followers and end up wasting time. So solution-drafts don’t come
on the horizon.
Even if say somehow a party or a group of parties gets majority in loksabha, no party has majority in rajyasabha, which is needed to pass laws in parliament. Getting majority in both houses is highly improbable and will take at least 10 years. Say somehow in 10 years, a party/group of parties gets majority in both houses and passes these democratic laws, still the Supreme Court judges, who are mostly agents of corrupt MNCs, can cancel these laws. In 1977, CIA sponsored Judge cancelled PM/MP status of Indira Gandhi for no valid reason.
In short, corrupt MNCs can suppress the strong leader PM or buy him out or get him/her killed just like Lal Bahadur Shashtri was killed. Only crores of commons via Udham Singh centric, activist guided, solution-draft lead mass movement for democratic procedures like TCP can take on the mighty corrupt MNC lobby and force the public servants to (see chapter 53, www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf) print these laws in Gazette notification (Gazette means instructions printed by PM or CM to the government officers)
Social work and activism is very much different. Activism involves informing commons about the good/bad procedure-drafts for the country and trying to bring good procedure-drafts needed for the critical problems of the country like MNC dominance, weakening military, illegal Bangladeshi problem, unjust judicial system, poverty, etc. While I am not downplaying social work, social work is insufficient to improve the courts, military and police of a country. Military, courts, police are needed to protect the schools and RTR-DEO, TCP is needed to improve the education of the country.
39) What is the rough method we can use to verify false information by media (newspaper,T.V, textbooks etc.) in absence of procedures like `Transparent Complaint Procedure` and other procedures , in which every citizen can verify the information himself ?
In the absence of procedures by which we can verify the information, the media and also other people gives false information and we can not prove or disprove things that ` Trusts and people sell their votes`
`Common people are stupid, useless, violent, casteist, etc`
Now, until we get procedure like Transparent Complaint / Proposal procedure, there are some rough methods, we can use to verify the information.
Before contemplating on persons we cannot reach, we should find and investigate the facts from the persons around us, whom we can reach easily like YOURSELF, YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR RELATIVES and then people around you in your locality.
And apply the results for you, your friends , your relatives for other citizens of the country. They are no different than your society.
Take some examples-
1) Media says that `People sell their votes` but no one has given any proof for that. So, first have you sold your vote ? Then ask your relatives and friends this question. Then ask the people around you this question , whether they THEMSELVES have sold their vote ? And remembering that vote is secret, can they give any proof, if they claim that they have sold their vote or if any trust claims that it has sold the votes of trustees ?
2) Media often says that common man is stupid, violent, cannot make decisions, etc.
Ask whether this applies to you, next ask whether this applies to your relatives and friends. Lastly investigate whether this applies to people around you.
3) While we respect your work for your organization, we would like to tell a method by which you can verify that your leader/organization is known amongst the masses or not.
Media might tell that there such and such leader/organization has so many crores of supporters, even the supporters may exaggerate.
When transparent complaint/proposal procedure will come, these type of informations with their verifications can be obtained easily because any one can put this information by going to the collector office and other people can support that by going to the village officer office.
And all this information will be verified since the supporters voter id details and finger print scans will be taken.
But , in the absence of Transparent complaint/proposal procedure, what rough method can be employed to know whether a leader or organization is known amongst the masses or not.
Now, 70-80% of the people of the country do not have access to a newspaper or t.v.So, they are not influenced directly by media.
So, I suggest this method to know whether a leader/organization is known amongst masses or not-
Choose five people who do not read newspapers or see TV in your locality and ask them the following questions (these are sample , you can make up your own questions also)-
1) What is Bharat Swabhiman Trust?
2) Who is Baba Ramdev?
3) What is India against Corruption ?
4) Who is Anna Hazare ?
5) Who is Indira Gandhi ?
6) What is Janlokpal bill ?
7) What is black money ?
8) Where is black money ?
9) How can we get back black money?
10) Who is laloo yadav ?
Please ask these and similar questions and as a feedback , please write your area here so that others can cross-verify.
40) Do we need to have examination or some objective methods to select specialised posts like RBI-governor, PM, CM, etc instead of Right to recall procedures.
The Right to recall procedures which we have
proposed are much less subjective than the existing procedures and examinations
for high level posts like RBI-governor, PM, CM etc are not possible, without
the examination papers being leaked out or being influenced by the money of the
There is no guarantee that those setting the examination will not be bought by the elite, that is they can be easily bought by the elite and used for their benefit.
And the people who the crores of people will support will
be having some experience in the field for which the people have supported, due
to years of contact with all types of people in politics. Crores of people are
not stupid to allow a useless, famous person to come for the post and cause
damage to themselves.
Most of the damage is caused not due to lack of good selection procedure, but due to lack of good removal procedure, due to which there is no fear of removal and punishment and the authority forms nexuses and no incentive to do good and get promoted by the public.
As of today, media does not give much information or does not give reliable information. But when `Transparent Complaint / Proposal procedure ` comes into effect, reliable information, which can be verified by any Citizen , will be available to all Citizens.( Upto certain extent, some reliable information, is now available since internet has come)
41) Will people go for registering complaint /
proposal or for supporting / opposing a complaint or a proposal or a candidate ? Will common citizens not use any other method
for doing the same ?
It depends on the nature of the complaint or proposal or candidate. If that is in their direct and immediate interest of the citizens, they will go to the patwari/village officer (or equivalent ) to support or oppose the complaint or proposal or candidate. If someone says, ` Make Mr. X the prime minister` and if Mr. X is not doing good things for the public to be known to many citizens of the country or area, no one will support that proposal, but if Mr. X is well known to quite a few citizens of the country that Mr. X is doing good things for the public, then people will go to support the proposal, since they will think all they have to lose is Rs. 3 but they may gain more by getting a good prime minister.
Another example is the proposal of MRCM, which will
ensure that Rs. 300-400 every month goes directly to the accounts of every
citizen. Now, 50 crores voters earn less than Rs. 20 per day. So, how many of
them will say, I do not want this 100% ethical money of Rs. 300-400 per month ? According to me, not even 5% will say so.
As far as the method for registering /supporting a complaint/proposal/candidate is concerned, the people will choose that method which has the maximum effect ,in which lakhs/crores can see their application or support or opposition, and add their YES/NO to that and any citizens can verify that also and that method has the least possible effort and money spent for that amount of effect. As far as we know, these methods outweigh all other methods, especially if people have to register more than one application, suppport or oppose more than once in 2-3 years.
42) What if the caste, religion
etc., bias of the people affects these procedures ?
Caste and religion etc. bias is exagerated by the politicians via the media. If you investigate about it amoung your friends and relatives, you will find it is not that much.
And Caste, religion and other biases, are more when the number of people participating are less. In these procedures, lakhs and crores of people can participate, so the caste, religion biases , even if there will cancel out and so these procedures actually reduce any type of bias.
How biases- caste, favoritism, nepotism, religion etc. decrease with democratic procedures
Please note that bias is natural in humans but our systems can be made unbiased.
A. The factors which determine whether bias comes into play or not are-
1. Comparative Goodness or badness of the available choices-
Although 95% people may say they are not biased, but if the choices are equally bad or good, bias does come into play.
Say you have to eat outside and all the hotels are equally bad and one of them is that of your relative, you will prefer the hotel of your relative, thinking that maybe the relative will give special treatment and give good food. But if a hotel of a non-relative is much better than the rest and of the hotel of the relative , naturally people will prefer that .
The same situation can be applied to voting, selection of CM, PM by the MPs/MLAs, selection of employees, selection of judges, etc.
2. Bias increases with the increase in discretionary power of the electing or selecting person and opportunity to form nexuses-
If the selecting/electing person has more discretionary powers and opportunity to form nexuses , they are more likely to display their bias.
A chief minister will be able to display more bias by selecting his/her favorites, caste, relatives compared to a common citizen who does not have much discretionary power.
Supreme Court Judge will ask minister to recommend his/her relative for post of public prosecutor while minister will ask the SC judge to favor his/her relatives in cases which are in courts of the SC judge or his/her friends.
Always FIRST start with the present systems. If you see present system, you will see that the public servants have their interests. And people choose those servants whose interests is not against the interests of the masses.
B. In oligarchic procedures, the masses cannot counter the biases of the top few and the top few gang up and loot the masses.
This was the case of the present oligarchic, undemocratic procedures, which unfortunately we have today.
Now , in democratic procedures, also there is the same bias and interests , BUT the BIASES CANCEL OUT AND THE INTERESTS WHICH ARE COMMON ARE HIGHLIGHTED and implemented. Those interests which are not against the interests of the masses.
If the public authority like CM, PM is biased favoring his/her relatives, friends, the masses who suffer will gang up against that biased person and replace that person with a unbiased person. So, in democratic procedures, the top few will not be able to loot the masses.
On a small scale, you can understand democracy of a family. The family members tell their interests and the head takes the decision according to the interests of the family members majority. Similar is a democratic system in the country.
C. Issue of National Interest -
In reality, there is NO case where something will benefit big chunk of population and harm national interest .
If someone claims so, he should refer to a particular draft like TCP, RTR-DEO, RTR-PM, etc and give the scenario how these democratic drafts will go end up hurting national interest. He will give scenearios, and one by one you need to rule them out as logistically infeasible. That way, he or at least audience, can be convinced that these democratic procedures are good.
And please note that the counts of the opinions of the common citizens will be not binding on the authorities, so the public authorities can in extraordinary circumstances take decisions which are contrary to the opinions of the masses but in interest of the country.
This happens even today, but today, there is no way the public authorities can know about the opinions of the citizens and most likely the decisions will be deliberately or undeliberately, be anti-commons, against the masses.
So, proposed democratic procedures reduce biases
while oligarchic procedures of today exaggerate the biases.
D. What we activists should do -
Please see some proposed democratic procedures like Transparent Complaint Procedure (TCP), Right to Recall-PM, Right to recall-CM, Right to Recall-Judges, Jury system, etc in chapters 1,6,7,21 of www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf
Please promote and demand these procedures by putting these procedures in your wall notes if you really want to reduce bias in our systems.
Please comment giving the full situation, citing the alternatives or choices to a individual while electing/selecting.
Now, if a hindu voter votes for a hindu candidate or a hindu person selects a hindu candidate, it is wrong to call him/her biased that he/she did not vote for/select the muslim candidate. We have to see whether the muslim candidate was much better and unbiased compared to the hindu candidate whom the voter preferred or the muslim candidate was equally bad or equally good compared to the hindu candidate.
E. Special case of First Past the Pole system, that is one person can give vote to one person-
In first past the pole system existing in our country, a person can give vote to a single candidate and the candidate who wins by even one vote is declared the winner.
Here the voter since he/she has a single vote, votes against the party he hates most.
So, if a voter hates Congress he will vote against the Congress for a party which is perceived to most likely win against Congress like BJP, SP etc. And if a voter hates BJP, he will vote against the BJP for a arty which is perceived to most likely win against BJP .
This results in the independents etc , parties who are new and not perceived to win , not getting enough votes. This system suppresses the new comers.
This problem is 800 years old and the solution is also 800 years old , that is preferential voting where each voter can give votes for one to five candidates in order of preference . This way the person can give vote to the person he likes most and also to the person who is perceived to win against the person / party he hates most. Thus, in this system , the independents and the new comers have increased probability of winning.
Please see chapter 40 ,
www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf for details of preferential voting
F. Issue of reservation to minorities-
Please note that the benefits of reservation go to only top 1% of the the caste, religion getting the benefits of reservation. Since the jobs or seats are limited, the poorest of those minorities , who do not have the needed connections or money , do not get the benefit of reservation.
Then why do politicians give reservation promises ?
Because they want to form nexuses with the elite of those minorities. The politicians will ensure that the elite of the minorities get the reservation benefits and in turn these elite who have influence amongst media will give the politicians favorable media coverage or the politicians might get cash or other favors. This is the case in most of the cases of said muslim vote-bank.
Also, the elite who get reservation benefits can campaign for the favourable image amongst the non-elite of that caste/class/area . In our country, the non-elite very much depend upon the elite for every day needs. Once TCP, RTR over CM, PM, MPs, MLAs , judges , officials , Jury system etc come , the non-elite will no longer be depending on the elite.
If someone is really interested in reducing reservation and that too by the approval of the poor SC/ST etc. , please see chapter 36 of www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf
43) How will TCP (Transparent Complaint / Proposal Procedure) and Right to recall procedures reduce corruption at high levels ? What if PM like Manmohan Singh does not fear losing job and continues BIG corruption like Coal Block and leave the country afterwards ??
Let us say that in a Coal scam, some corrupt prime minister offers a corrupt industrialist a coal block worth Rs. 10,000 rupees in return for depositing a bribe of Rs. 1000 crore in foreign secret account of the PM and giving the government only royalty of 100 rupees per tonne of coal while the real market price of coal is 2500 rupees per tonne.
Now, how will this stop with coming of TCP, RTR procedures in gazette notification ?
Because to earn back the money given by the corrupt industrialist in return for the favour of giving coal blocks will take lot of time and after coming of TCP, MRCM (Mineral Royalty for Commons and Military, see chapter 5, www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf) , the commons can force the taking back of coal blocks given to the corrupt industrialist. This will cause a big loss to the industrialist. That is why, if these procedures are in place, the industrialist will not take any bribe.
Secondly, the citizens can demand and force hanging or punishment of corrupt prime minister via TCP so that the PM will fear demanding bribes.
44) Has TCP been implemented anywhere, in any country ? It should be first implemented at small scale first and then at a larger, national level.
No, TCP has not been implemented anywhere. In
developed countries, the situation of commons was not so bad that it was needed
there since there were other democratic procedures like Jury System, Right to
recall, effective wealth tax, inheritance tax, etc.
You can write to the CM to put this procedure in gazette so as to implement at city/district level. If you do that, we will support that.
45) Can these opinion gathering procedures bring about any change ? Can they force officials to act even when the number of approvals for a certain proposal / complaint are in crores?
These are not only opinion gathering procedures,
they are also objectively opinion proving procedures. When lakhs/crores of common citizens approve a certain
proposal / complaint and it is proved via these procedures, the commons can
exert pressure on the public servants and they will be
forced to act appropriately due to fear of replacement, fear of punishment and
fear of Udham Singh or Udham Singhs acting against them if they do not act
TCP and other democratic procedures give direction for Udham Singh to act appropriately for the rights of the commons. These procedures prove what is the opinon of the masses.
For details about Udham Singh, please see answer to Question no. 33.
(1) What is the Guarantee that Jury Members are not going to be sold or corrupt like Judges? OR What is the Guarantee that all the Jury Members selected are Genuine?
In Jury System, 15-30 Jurors are chosen from population of 5 lakhs to 110 crores. Since these Jurors have only one case, the case is over 5 to 15 days in 99% cases. So first, it is highly unlikely that a lawyer would exist in world who would have be a relative of these 12 Jurors or even 6 of them or even two of the Jurors. And finding him within 15 days make it further difficult.
The Juries change with every case. Since Jurors are drawn from population of 10,00,000 or more at random, it is guaranteed that lawyer had no prior contact with any Jurors --- probability is below 1 in 1000. Whereas in judge-sys, judges and lawyers intimately know each other. So judge-lawyer exists before the case starts. And in Jury, a Juror cannot come in Jury again for next 10 years. So a lawyer or Juror have no "repeat business". While "repeat business" is ample in judge system.
(2) What are the chances for bogus Jury Members?
No-one has asked such question when there is a matter of election. If India is able to conduct election with less then 1% bogus voting, then we will be able to conduct Jury without bogus Jury Members.
(3) What are the chances that Jury Member will delay cases like Judges?
In Jury System, 15-30 Jurors are chosen from population of 5 lakhs to 110 crores. Since these Jurors have only one case, the case is over 5 to 15 days in 99% cases.
One Jury has only one case, and so hearing of a case is continuous from 10am to 5pm and next date is next day. Thus the lawyers run out of frivolous arguments within hours or few days. Also, in the system I am proposing, with vote of 9 to 12, the Jurors can expel a lawyer from case and thus if a lawyer is making time-wasting arguments, the Jurors can expel him, and this will deter lawyer and client from making time wasting arguments.
(4) Who will protect the jurors and judges against criminal's retaliatory action?
How do we know that if the powerful enemies want to physically harm the jurors or their family, government would provide necessary protection (and not lip service).
Lets confine the discussion to comparison between the judge system and JurySys and not compare anyone with some uncoded ideals. And so a flaw which is present in both systems should not be used against either. Now participation in JurySys is involuntary like a small scale military draft. Now there is certainly some possibility that a criminal's associate will try to harm a Juror. The same applies to the judge system. The criminal can also try to harm the judge. Now your question is : who will protect the jurors against criminal's retaliatory action? The same question also applies on judge system : who will protect the judge? The govt can compensate the victim and govt/police can punish the criminal post facto, but cannot "protect" the Juror or judge or anyone for that matter. So govt can neither protect the judge nor the Juror nor anyone.
In JurySys, the powerful ganglord will be confronting not one Jury, but 100s of Juries --- one per every complaint against him. eg a person like Shri Dawoodbhai who has 100-200 gangster in Mumbai would face about 100-200 Jury Trials a year against him or his gangsters. With due respect to Shri Dawoodbhai, he cant threaten 2500 Jurors every year. And law to enact JurySys should be has to be seen in conjuction with law I propose via which we commons can recall District Police Chiefs, judges, CM, HomeMin. The criminals like Sri Dawoodbhai and Sri Latifbhai thrive only because High Court judges, Supreme Court judges, Ministers and District Police Chiefs support them. With procedures of recall over SCjs, HCjs, CMs, PM, Ministers and DPC, none of them would dare to support such criminals. So with recallable judges, HomeMin and Police Chiefs, strength of Sri Dawoodbhai will decrease. So there is no way Sri Dawoodbhai can threaten 2000 Jurors a year.
On protection issue, the JurySys is better than judge sys, as number of individuals are 25000 times higher in JurySys. (One judge say handles 60 cases a year, so 1800 cases in his 30 year career. In JurySys it would handled 1800*15 = about 25,000 Jurors. So 1 judge = 25000 Jurors is rough estimate) .So in JurySys, he will have to threaten 600-1500 Jurors where in judge sys he needs to threaten only one judge. And even if the judge has bodyguards, there is no way to protect the judge or his family members all the time.
In US, how many Jurors got killed for
delivering judgment? NONE. Why? Because the gangs etc
break apart when corruption is low, and without gang, organized revenge is not
Also, in the JurySys I have proposed, I
have borrowed one idea from Greek JurySys of 300 BC. As the nature of crime and
"size" of criminal grows, increase the number of Jurors. eg Greek used to have Jury of 500 to deal with large crimes
or influential people. eg Socrates was given option to
leave Athence or face death by Jury of 500 Jurors. I havent worked out exact
details, but in the system I have proposed, there will be Jury of 50 for large
crimes and for large crimes done by influential people, there will be 2-10
Juries of 50 Jurors each.
And lastly, in the system I have proposed, the verdict of Jury can be cancelled by majority approval by TCP. So if majority is against what Jury said (which is unlikely, as Jurors are randomly chosen sample of citizens), then without confrontation, majority can change the judgment,
So protection issue is there in BOTH system. Equal-equal. All Govt can do is compensate if judge or Jurors is hurt by criminal. Equal-equal. In JurySys, harming Jurors is harder than number of Jurors are several times more. So JurySys is better.
(5) How do you protect the jurors from intellectual intimidation? especially jurors coming from economically backward part without necessary education/background. ex: jury mix consisting of mba types, farmer, steel company worker .,etc
Yes, the Jury will consists of all types from people. In JurySys, each Juror wants to convince other Jurors to agree with him. So if any Juror tries to intimidate another Juror, the second Juror will just stop listening to him. So as a result, you rarely see any Juror trying to intimidate other.
(6) A more expensive but equally effective option to streamline would be to capture video of the proceedings (like third umpire...) and make it available as a public record for the people and media to see. intense scrutiny and psychological effect alone would put so much pressure on the courts that the lethargy/bribing/perjury/bias would gradually take a backseat.
In the law I have proposed, recording of all court cases will be compulsory. And they will be aired on-line on internet. IOW, there will 100000 courts in India up from existing 17000, and each will have TV camera connected to internet so that anyone in India can see any courtroom live. The online viewing of Supreme Court benches and ALL High Court benches can start within 1 month, but online viewing of 16000-100000 lower courts will take 5 years. But public disclosure is NOT a solution to nepotism and corruption. Since we commons dont have recall procedures, the judges, IPS take bribe in public and dont give a damn. The public disclosure will only give us information on how defunct each judge is --- it will not solve the problem. So while I support public viewing of ALL courts over internet-TV, the solution is Recall-Jury and not Internet based Court-TV.
(7) Along with judicial reforms, easy access to judicial systems is key. Every district HQ should have a High court bench and every state capital should have SC bench. A SC judge whether sitting in NewDelhi or Bengaluru SC bench gives the same verdict based on facts ,constitution law etc. What difference does the place makes. Why should a poor man or any man for that matter travel all the way to Delhi and waste his resources?
The above situation still suffers with the problem that HCjs and SCjs are corrupt and nepotic.
The solution I propose to appeal is
1. District Court Jury will do the first hearing and give verdict.
2. If the person wants appeal, he will present the case to a Grand Jury of the RANDOMLY chosen District. If Grand Jury admits appeal then it will go to District Juries of 3 Districts chosen at random
3. The aasils(Clients of the lawyers) can appear over video conference
4. If aasil wants one more appeal, then he will need to approach Grand Jury of 3 Districts chosen at random from three different states. Again, he can appear over video
5. If this appeal is admitted, then case will be heard by 9 Juries across Nation.
IOW, I am "distributing" High Court and Supreme Court. In India, the worst concentration of power is not Minister but HCjs and SCjs. And once that is "distributed" many evils in India will reduce. The presence of HCjs in state capital gives advantage to elitemen in State Capital over commons who are all over the State. And the presence of Supreme Court in Delhi gives advantage to elitemen in Delhi over every common in India. Once HCs and SC becomes "distributed", the elitemen will lose this advantage.
(8) Death Penalties are given more in places having Jury System or Judge system?
There are NO flaws in JurySys, which judge-system doesnt have 10-100 times. And in Russia as well as whole world, the death penalties are LESS in districts which use JurySys. And in US too, DP (death penalties) increased ONLY after judges started filtering out people who were anti-DP(death penalty) from Juries !! The JurySys is BEST known protection against DPs(death penalties).
(9) 1. In India a judgement in favour or or against an accused may be interpreted in terms of caste, religion, sect and region
2. Our media will also do a fair bit of contribution to the above. Also the power of media in brainwashing is not to be ignored.
JurySys is not uniform all across districts in US, Europe. So I will reply above wrt the JurySys law I have proposed
1. The Jurors are selected at random from population. Depending on the severity of the case, number of Jurors will be 12 to 100 or even more (yes, 100 - Athens used to have Jury Trials with 600 Jurors). Most crimes will have Jury of 12-20. Since they are randomly chosen from district population, no caste will dominate the Jury
2. It is myth that media can convince lie as truth. Media can at best hide truth. And the aasils are there to put the truth before Jurors
My claim is that judges are far more nepotic, nexused and hence far far more corrupt than Jurors Where as nepotism in Jurors is 0% because of its very structure that 12-600 Jurors are chosen at random from a population of lakhs or crores. And nexus with lawyers, criminals etc are near zero in Jurors. And corruption gets amplified by nepotism and nexuses, and so corruption in judges is several orders of magnitude more than Jurors. So we should used Jurors in Lower, High and Supreme Courts, and not the judges. These are very much my claims and proposals. But I never said that Jurors are unbiased. They are as biased as judges. Now since number of Jurors are 12-600, the biases will cancel each other and so Jury system as a whole will have less bias than judges. But that is not my main issue - my main issue is nepotism, nexuses and corruption.
(10) Please refresh your knowledge of the cases and why jury system was abolished in India
SCjs gave nanavati case as excuse to abolish JurySys. This was wrong decision. The Jurors knew that Nanavti was murderer. But had Jurors given a guilty verdict, the judge could have hanged Nanavati. This was not acceptable, as crime was done out of rage, and the victim was a philiander who had seduced a married woman. Back then, when DNA tests were not avialble, seducing one's wife impled a possibility of having a child with wrong father, and so back then, adultry was considered worse than murder, And given that Nanavati was a soldier and commons have respect for soldiers, they thought that Nanavati should NOT be killed. So they gave innocent verdit.
If Jurors has option of imprisoning him for say 3-7 years, they would have done so. But Jurors back then had only two options : say guilty or not guilty. Saying guilty means giving oppurtunity to the judges to hang=kill Nanavati.
So Jurors did the right thing.
Thats why in proposed procedures, the Jurors decide punishment, which can be any punishment below max punishment stated in the law.
So Nanavati case only proves that JurySys is better than judge-sys.
The judges in Indian courts back then were all pious devout UC. And like good pious devout UCs of those days, they wanted Dalits to "stay in within their aukaat". And so idea of dalits in Jury was unaccepatble to them. Till 1947, the Jurors came from a subset of Indians (education, land ownership etc was criteria). In 1950s, the GoI had no option but to accept the demand of enlarging the list to entire voter list. This would mean dalits would also come in Jury, and so would OBC.How can pious devout good UC judges accept such adharma? This was one reason for killing JurySys.
The castism in 1950s is NOT my imagination. It is raw fact. Even now, judges are hostile to Dalits in judocracy (judges Bala's appointment was cancelled once, and he was re-appointed only after dalit MPs and Prez Narayanan himself supported demand of of adding SC atrocities in UN's charter).
In addition, judges lose money in JurySys.
(11) But if you have to convict someone, don't you need a unanimous decision from the jurors? Which means, you can corrupt one juror out of nine, and get away with murder. or you'll have a hung jury.
In US, conviction needs all 12 Jurors to say guilty.
In Scotland, Jury has 15 members, and 8 out of 15 guilties mean conviction.
There are places in US where 11 out 12 guilty also means convictions, but then sentence is lower.
IOW, there is NO firm rule.
In the JurySys I propose, 9 out of 12 would mean guilty. In general, it would be (2/3N +1) guilty where N = number of Jurors.
In my proposals, the Jurors (and NOT nepotic judges) decide the punishment. So each Jurors will pick a number between 0 and Max (0 means not guilty and MAX is max number of punishment in months for that crime). Arrange the numbers in DECREASING order and pick 9th one (9th one if there are 12 Jurors, (2/3N +1)th if there are N jurors). That will be punishment for accused.
(12) Your system will only add to the burden of the already overloaded cases
JurySys has been around 20 countries, and case backlog is HIGHER in judge-sys countries. Besides, it is criminals who create the burden on courts, not judge sys or JurySys.
Chances of false conviction in judge system is higher as if the counter-party is wealthy, he can always bribes the judges via judges' relative lawyers and get a false conviction. This is particularly true when accused is so weak that he cant even file an appeal in HC.( Today costs is high because only lawyers with nexuses with judges can get a case admitted and such lawyers charge high fees. In JurySys there is no nexuses,so all lawyers will charge small fees and even weak will be able to file appeals.)
Q-One juror has one case or rather 9 to 12 jurors have one case. So for a day if hundred cases are filed you need to have twelve hundred jurors on a single given day. There is time, space, lawyer and many other constraints to do with this because a lawyer on any given day and some juries on any given day can only attend to only one case. ...
A-When criminals get punished, the crime rate reduce and so number of cases coming into courts also reduce. So in JurySys, where organized criminals do get punished, number of cases coming into courts reduce.
Consider a district of say 15,00,000 citizens. You give a number of 100 cases per day in that district or say 100*250 = 25,000 cases a year or some 125,000 cases in 5 years.
a)If every crime is committed by a different person, that means some 1/12th of districts' citizens are criminals ! That is unrealistic scenario.
b)So only way 100 cases a day may be coming is that some people are committing crimes again and again. This is what I call as career criminals. Such criminals thrive because they get acquitted and so commit 10s of crimes every month. But they acquitted because they have nexuses with judges. In JurySys, they land in prison as Jurors change with every trial, and so they cant form nexuses with 1000s of Jurors every year. So as career criminals land in prison, number of crimes and cases reduce.
So 100 crimes a day scenario is not seen any Jury based country. In US, which is most crime ridden of Western countries, violent crimes were 1,400,000 which is 1400,000/300 = 14000/3 = about 4700 per year per million citizens which is 10-20 cases per day. This is manageable.In US most of the crimes, even minor crimes are reported ,while in India, most of the cases are not reported. Also, in US, most of the crimes are drug–related due to drug prohibition. While in the western countries where drug prohibition is not there, the crime rate is actually decreasing and prisons are closing down due to lack of prisoners.
(13) Can Jury system accommodate the all-prevailing castism?
First, we should only compare judge system and JurySys. The judges are as castist as any common, and hence judge system is NOT a cure of castism. Further, judges are inflicted with rampant nepotism, which is worse than castism. There is NO nepotism possible in Jury System.
Now say 20 Jurors are chosen at random from community of 10,00,000 adult citizens, and each party excludes 2 each, so that finally 12 and 4 standby are left. Now these 12 will come from ALL castes. And no caste in a region of 10,00,000 adults i.e. population of say 15,00,000 has more than 20% and such dominant caste divides into sub-caste and caste consciousness is lost.
So if accused and complainer are of different caste, then also Jurors will consist of all caste members, and in the worst case scenario, both parties will exclude Jurors of each others' caste, and so 12 Jurors will be from caste not common to accused or guilty.
So castism will have LESSER effect in JurySys than in judge system.
Many crimes are fall out of property disputes. To give you a concrete example, there was builder named Amrit Patel in Ahmedabad. His modus operandi was :
a)Say he wants to force a plot owner to sell his plot, as his plot has value to him (because the plot is adjoining to plot he owns etc)
b)Amrit Patel he will ask policemen etc to file a false case against plot owner.
c) Then Amrit Patel will bribe the judge via his relative lawyer, and the judge will threaten the plot owner of conviction, unless he sells the plot to the builder.
Such deals are possible in judge-sys as lower judge is constant in an area for 2-4 years, and the next judge is from the same state(due to which it is easier to have trust and nexuses between the former judge and new judge) and some near by areas and high-court judges and supreme court judges stay for even longer period in a area. And each judge has some 5-10 relative lawyers who are eagerly searching for wealthy builder, wealthy criminals etc who can give money, for favors.
But such deals are NOT possible in JurySys where each Trial will have 12 different Jurors.
(14) Jury system is much better if the Jury is selected properly.
The JurySys is far far better than any judge-sys that has existed in world till now, ONLY because Jurors are selected at random from whole population of district/state. This forces a gang of organized criminals to confront 1000s and 10000s of Jurors, and makes it impossible for them to predict next set of Jurors and form nexuses in advance. No 'quid pro quo" i.e. "serve me, and I will serve you" is possible in JurySys. Whereas in judge-sys, "quid pro- quo" between judges and organized criminals is guaranteed.
Questioner-Here in US, the jury is selected randomly. We all know if the Jury is selected "randomly" in India, it still might have the ppl the judge/system wants.
When selection is done by a PHYSICAL method, like 10 blind men throwing dice in front of Grand Jurors no one, NOT even God, can decide who will come in Jury. In US, the JurySys has weakened as judges can summon as many as 200 Jurors, and by interviewing them, expel as many as 150. This makes judges powerful. In the system I am proposing, there will be only 30 Jurors, and each party will reject only 6 each, and rest 18 will be Jurors. Of these 12 randomly chosen will be Jurors and 6 will be stand-by.
Questioner-How can we have a fool proof Jury system in place?
The JurySys where judges have minimal control is something even a God cant sabotage. And to further weaken the judges, my proposal makes judges expellable and replaceable.
Questioner: wonderful idea...but indian politicians will find a way to circumvent this system as well
Once I made an encryption system for a client of mine (using off the shelf libraries). But my client was skeptical --- cant a guy with super comp still break the password? I said "well, if he can do so, he can also break encryption of banks, and so he wont go after your system, he would rather break bank's encryption system". He was convinced.
If Indian MPs could break JurySys, they would have left India and settled in US, and robbed US by now. They havent gone to US and sabotaged the US's JurySys system yet, as sabotaging the JurySys is beyond God's power, due to large selection base and built in randomness.
(15) Election of judges by common people is a moronic concept. How do you expect illiterate Indian masses to understand the finer points of law? And if you have a restricted electorate, what will be the criteria?
No there is no restricted electorate. I am proposing
Universal Voting in election of judges.
And you love to insult us illiterate Indian masses aka commons, right? How can morons even decide who should be a judge? After all, only people with 4 digit IQ like judges, lawyers and intellectuals can understand "fine points of laws". How can we (sic) commons understand laws?
In Texas, since 1870 ALL judges from Magistrate to Texas High Court are elected. And India has far far more literacy and awareness due to media than Texas of 1870. In US, for over a century, some 20 out of 50 states have been having elected judges. And elected district police chief is common place. And more than half of public prosecutors in US are also elected for over a century. As per your logic, US should have become a hell hole by now. But then who do facts go against your logic? Why is that places which have elected judges better than those with appointed ones?
The election procedure is free from nepotism. Consider Gujarat High Court. There are 32 HCjs, of which 16 are bania and brahmin, all of them are judges because there daddy/uncles were judges or public prosecutors or eminent lawyers. Election is MUST to kill this rampant nepotism in judiciary.
And expellable judge will be far far less defunct than appointed and un-expellable one.
Questioner: The process of impeaching a judge has been made tough only to prevent the Executive from targeting them for anti-establishment decisions. By simplifying the process, you will open the judiciary to Executive abuse.
The executive must not have ANY power to expel a judge. The power and procedure to expel a local judges or SCj must be in the hands of us commons, and no one else.
a) procedure by which we commons can expel SCjs, HCjs and local judges
b) 5 seniormost judges at National level should be directly elected by commons
c) The rest of the judges should be recruited via written exams ONLY.
d) In a case, the decision, and fine and/or prison sentence should be decided by Jurors and NOT the judges in local courts, High Courts as well as Supreme Court.
The judge system is inherently plagued with nepotism. And so judges MUST NOT be allowed to give judgments and only Jurors should be allowed at all levels. And judges MUST not be allowed to appoint judges as this results into rampant nepotism and nothing else.
Questioner: A judge must have legal skills, judging ability, and integrity, which can't be determined by a general election. ( Also, when has 'integrity' been a great asset for elections of the politicians in India? If not, why should it be the case for elections of judges?) General elections are about common citizen's perceptions and given that common citizen doesn't possess the calibre to judge someone's legal acumen, an election for judges is ridiculous.
While talking about integrity, why do we compare judges with politicians? For a change try comparing them with Jurors, and see how badly you would fail. The most important thing in court is that the decision makers does not have pre-built nexuses with lawyers, criminals, relative lawyers, elitemen or anyone. Pls do compare judges and Jurors on this issue. How many judges do NOT have nexuses with relative lawyers? How many of them do NOT have nexuses with lawyers and elitemen? In contrast, Juror-lawyer nexus is unheard and not even worst anti-Juror has been able to point out even one case of nepotism against Jurors.
Also, if knowledge of law is of paramount importance, what written test do SCjs take while recruiting HCjs? NONE. So if knowledge of law is so much of issue, why dont judges take written exams? Because if they do, they wont be able to recruit their relatives.
Questioner-What makes you think that the people will cast their votes without taking into consideration the candidates cast, religion or other distinguishing traits.
(Texans have been electing judges for 100-120 years. )
You say that if HCjs and SCjs are elected, there would be castism, religion etc. So does procedure of appointment reduce it? The appointing persons too can be castist and communal. Worse, they are nepotic.
And your issue about castism is misplaced. Say entire state elects 10 HCjs where each voter has 10 votes. Now no caste has 51% in any state. Even the most numerous caste is less than 20%, and it is divided into sub-caste. IOW, when constituency is large, castism is not an issue. So if HCjs are elected by whole state, castism will play little role.
Questioner: Infact the process of electing a Judge would mean more wastage of time and money and oh yes other malpractices that one comes across during the elections.
Election is expensive as Election Commissioner use defunct ways to manage logistics. Otherwise cost of election can be brought down to half or even 1/3rd of what is now. And reduction in nepotism will create benefits that will outweigh the costs. Look at the bribery in judocracy --- it is much large compared to cost of elections.
As i said Nepotism cannot be done away with ,as long as one will have the privilege to choose he/she would always take decisions based on their personal preferences.
Pls explain how nepotism can come when 10,00,000 commons elect a local judge or when 36,000,000 Gujjus elect HC-Cj. Can anyone be relative of lakhs and crores of commons?
Suffices to say that procedure of election of HCjs will remove rampant nepotism in process of election of HCjs we see today.
Questiioner: Interviews are the most important part of the selection process be it the IAS,IIM's and even the NDA. Yes I do agree that interviews at times become filtering stage in case interviewer has very strong dislike for a certain kind of individual and has a pretty rigid mindset in that regard.But one cant do away with the interview for the benefits of the same outweigh the irregularities which you speak of.
It is not just like or dislike. The UCs use interview in IAS, IIM, Univs etc to filter out OBCs. And in Univs, they use interviews to promote nepotism. In judiciary, the judges give title of senior advocate by interview and this too have become a source of rampant nepotism.
The procedure which has LEAST malpractice is written
exam, with NO interview. Interviews are hell holes and mother of all
malpractices - castism, ideological filitering, nepotism, corruption
.... you name it. But other than written exam,
election has LEAST malpractice, much less than interviews and appointments.
The reason why Nbjprie support oligarchic setups like judges appointing judges and are hostile to democratic setup is to control GoI-lands, mines, and semi-natural oligopolies (i.e. areas where you cant have 100s of players) like telecom, electricity, roads etc.
(16) Tell me your understanding of constitution? How can Citizens give judgements?
I did cite my understanding of Constitution in general. That the first few words of the Magnum Opus ("We, the people of India .....") amply make it clear that as far as India goes, ALL powers of the State, the Nation and the Constitution are vested in us commons, and the agents like SCjs, HCjs, PM, CM etc are to exercise some of the powers ONLY with the consent, will and pleasure of us commons. The Constitution re-affirms this by citing words
a) Political Justice
All these words solemnly mean that agents of the State, such SCjs, HCjs, PM, IAS, IPS etc are to sit on their chair only as long as commons don't want to expel them. So right to expel/replace CM, PM, HCjs, SCjs, IAS, IPS etc is inherent in the Constitution of India, as written by our founding fathers and as interpreted by us commons.
Further, the words "political justice" and "equality" imply and establish that every person's interpretation of Constitution shall have same value. Hence if majority of us commons cite the SCjs' judgment as unconstitutional, then even if that judgment was declared valid by all 24 SCjs, that judgment becomes unconstitutional and void. IOW, SCjs' verdict is non-void only as long as we majority of us commons have not declared it as unconstitutional.
The only problem is --- lack of procedures. While Constitution had unambiguously declared right to expel/replace, the procedure is what is missing. And one of my goal is to fill this void in Constitution by enacting procedures by which we commons can accomplish our Constitutional rights to expel/replace .
I propose DIRECT election for following posts
3) Local chief judges
10) District Police Chief
Following should be appointed via written exams
1) 100,000 local judges
3) District Police Chief
The middle level all should be promoted via their service and scores in other additional exams.
So no need to elect railway clerks. They will come via written exams as now.
There should be Jury based procedure to expel them.
For following positions, they will be appointed, but we commons should have majority based expulsion/replacement procedures
2)District Education Officer
etc. PM, CMs, SCjs and HCjs.
Most of us commons believe that nepotism in judocracy is sky high, worse than politics. Not that neta are less nepotic, but procedure of election is killing nepotism big time. Eg Modi is son of small time small town grocer ; Mayawati's father was some class-III employee. Compare them with their counter part HC-Cjs. Almost all of them come from lawyers families. This fact alone proves volume --- talented kids of commons can become CM , become IAS, but cant become HC-Cjs and SCjs. Now there are exception like SC-Cj Bala, but that was before 1992 when HCjs were appointed by CM and not HC-Cj and so commons could get in. Ever since judges started appointing judges, judocracy has become 100% reservation for judges' kids and close friends' kids. The judocracy is rapidly evolving or degenerating into a caste by itself.
And what about lower court judges? corruption is near 100%. Why aren't HCjs and SCjs fixing that problem? Well, reality is that a big chunk of lower court judges are relatives of HCjs. Hence there is no hope that HCjs will even bring down corruption in LCjs.
And corruption in IAS has increased only because corrupt judges did not punish corrupt IAS.
Unless courts are fixed, NOTHING, NOTHING will improve.
And how can we fix courts? SCjs are nepotic/corrupt. So are HCjs. Neta and IAS are no better.
So there is no way out but we commons take things in our own hands. Not mob riots, but via systematic procedures of registration of YES/NO, and expulsion/replacements based on those YES/NO counts.
Otherwise, left to these SCjs, HCjs, intellectuals, neta, IAS etc. we will soon become another Pakistan and then slave of US.
(17) JurySys can be plagued with same problems as judge system
This statement is factually incorrect. The JurySys is proven and known to be immune to nepotism and nexues, where over 99% judges in all countries, including West, are proven to be nepotic and nexused. Even in West, where nepotism and corruption in judges is low, the people do NOT have faith in integrity of judges which is why they still support JurySys. Even in India, when there was JurySys, there was not even one complaint of nepotism and nexus. Where judocracy was nepotic from its early days. eg P N Bhagwati managed to become HCj only because his father was SCj.
Criminalization of politics has been due to nepotism and corruption in judocracy. The judges supported local criminals as these local criminals were paying big bucks to judges' relative lawyers. So the judges supported these criminals, and criminals became stronger and then later entered into politics.
And we commons could NOT stop judges from supporting
criminals because we commons did NOT have procedure to expel/replace judges.
So your statement that procedure of expulsion/replacement of judges by commons will INCREASE criminalization in society is WRONG, and opposite is true. It is lack of replacement procedure which is increasing the strength of criminals in society.
(18) Why do the PM/CMs not increase number of Courts?
Unless SC-Cj and HC-Cjs demand increase, PM, CMs cant increase number of courts. And whenever SC-Cj and HCjs asked for increase in number of courts, PM/CMs have obeyed within weeks or months. So if number of courts are low, the blame is on SC-Cjs , HC-Cjs, SCjs and HCJs.
Do you insist that they existing HC-Cjs continue in office or should be expelled?
(19) How are Judges Appointed?
Before, 1992, the PM and the MPs gave directions to the President who appointed the judges in consultation with the Supreme Court and High Court judges. This `consultation` was not binding.
in 1993, the SCjs deliberately mis-interpreted the Constitution and have usurped the power to appoint SCjs and converted Indian courts into their fiefdoms. The SCjs interpreted the word`consultation` as binding.
And the mess has gone on only because we commons dont have procedures to expel SCjs to save the Constitution
In reality :
1. SCjs are appointed by SCjs, and the neta, IAS, IPS, elitemen, MNCs who give favors to SCjs. They are promoted from High Courts.
2. HCjs are appointed by HC-Cj , HCjs and SCjs, and the neta, IAS, IPS, elitemen who give favors to HCjs and SCjs. About 50% are lawyers. 50% are Sessions Court judges.
3. The Sessions Court judges are appointed by HCjs via discretion. About 50% are lawyers and 50% are Magistrates
4. Magistrates are recruited by written exams followed by interviews taken by HCjs or retired HCjs picked by HC-Cj. The interviews are farce. So in reality, only relatives of judges or close friends become Magistrates.
. The written exams are ONLY for lowermost cadre in judocracy --- Magistrates and junior division judges. There too, there are "interviews" taken by hand picked people. Only judges relatives get selected there.
The judges have become corrupt and nepotic as there are no REPLACEMENT procedures. In absence of replacement procedures, irrespective of which appointment procedures you follow --- the judges or anyone will become nepotic from day-1 and corrupt on day-2.
. But the nepotism and now cash-deals are OPEN because of interviews. The HC-Cj makes committee of 3 sitting or retired judges and they give interview marks. This interview is purely their discretion and is used to implement rampant nepotism.
The pro-judge people deliberately support this interview procedure.
Vishnubhai Gupt (alias Chanakyabhai ) had told me some 2300 years ago : he who cant harm , his anger is futile.
I would go ahead and say : he who cant harm, his existence is futile. And I would re-state : he who cant harm, he shall end up being slave and all his wealth will get confiscated.
How have IAS, IPS, judges, Ministers enslaved us commons? Because we commons dont have procedures to harm them --- expel them, confiscate their wealth and imprison them. So unless we devise FAST and CHEAP replacement procedures, they will keep robbing us.
Questioner-So the judiciary can no longer be manipulated by politicians, i.e., pres/PM, after the change in law in 1991. What's your problem with that? I am not sure I understand.
Well, pls re-read the first part as well. Deciding CjI by seniority alone has no significant disadvantage. But why did SCj decide that only SCjs will appoint SCjs and HCjs? If neta are so bad, there are tons of other ways of filling seats in SC and HCs. (eg in Texas commons elect judges). This is like saying "everyone is bad, so we will devour all the powers", as if "we" are better than the rest.
The reason why SCj devoured power of appointing SCjs and HCjs was to ensure that they get all the spoils of loot. The excuse of 'corrupt politician' was just an excuse.
Questioner- There are many
stringent qualifications to become a judge
Rules for becoming a Supreme Court Judge:
“3) A person shall not be qualified for appointment as a Judge of the Supreme Court unless he is a citizen of India and -
(a) has been for at least five years a Judge of a High Court or of two or more such Courts in succession; or
(b) has been for at least ten years an advocate of a High Court or of two or more such Courts in succession; or
(c) is, in the opinion of the President, a distinguished jurist.
Explanation I: In this clause "High Court" means a High Court which exercises, or which at any time before the commencement of this Constitution exercised, jurisdiction in any part of the territory of India.
Explanation II: In computing for the purpose of this
clause the period during which a a person has been an advocate, any period
during which a person has held judicial office not inferior to that of a
district judge after he became an advocate shall be included.”
The only requirement to become HCj is that person should have been a lawyer for 10 years. There are over 100,000 people which qualify this requirement. What is so stringent about it? It does not say that he must have contested N cases or so.
And to be SCj, he has to be an HCj. I wrote that in my post. And you need to be a lawyer in HCj for 10 years. Big deal !!! There must be 10000s of lawyers in HCs.
There are no written tests to become SCj. The committee of 3 SCjs decide who becomes SCjs. The selection is PURELY on the basis of nepotism, favoritism, recommendation of the elitemen who pay bug bucks to judges' relative lawyers etc. Yes, it is not tom, dick and harry ... but it is WEALTHY Toms only.
Questioner-Yes corruption and nepotism exist in the judiciary, as much as they exist in politics or medicine or the armed forces.
The corruption in Army is FAR FAR LESS than judges. And nepotism is far far less as well. In fact, most soldiers' sons no longer want to join army as salary are pathetically low. The salaries are not great in judges, but given the HUGE bribes they make directly or via favoring relative lawyers and businessmen, the queue to become judges gets longer everyday. Where as vacancies in army (officers) is over 20% and growing everyday.
The nepotism in judiciary is MORE than that in polity. In politics, voters never vote based on relation. Even MLA has 200,000 voters and no one can get more than 1000-2000 votes based on nepotism. Which is why you still see "sons of commons" like Modi and Mayawati reaching top positions. Such instances in appointments of HCjs have become rare after 1992.
So lets not wash away nepotism in judges by saying that it is universal ---- the degree is MUCH higher in judges than anywhere else.
Questioner - Of course someone will always exercise discretion in the appointment process and to that extent the sanctity of the selection process can be challenged .Our aim should be to minimise this exercise of discretion and to take it away (solely) from the judges.
Yes, someone will always have discretion. But that doesnt mean that nepotism-free processes dont exist. The election in constituency > 100,000 is 99% nepotism free as no one can have more than 1000 relatives. And with Constituency > 10,00,000 nepotism is less than 0.1%. So having election of all chief judges and 4 senior most judges (district, state, nation) will create a selection process which is free from nepotism.
`let me say what practically and
actually happens… as to appointments or selection for appointments. The State
Government (politically) singles out some 50% of the required vacancies,
including for the post of the Register of the HC, from the State Judicial
Service, and again picks up the remaining part…from the practicing advocates at
the Bar of the HC. In selecting them, the 1st consideration is that whether or
not the chosen advocate is adhered to the ruling political party of the State,
or, in other words, to any influential ruling Politician. This is the actual
eligibility….So generally the outstanding advocates, aged above 35 years, do
not join judiciary…or do not need to be appointed on the Bench of the State
Judiciary (or HC). In actual, mostly the unsuccessful lawyers or juniors of the
successful or noted senior lawyers are chosen to be recommended to the SC by
the State Government, on basis of the recommendation of the ruling Party or of
their respective influential noted Bosses who enjoy favours or privileges of
the concerned Government in the State. So, in most of the cases, the chosen
advocates do not even know the proper ABC of law, or are not at home in the
legal jugglery….and or intelligent enough to go inside the Law (to make
justice). Or are temperamentally unjudicial. And it is
therefore, they are financially greedy…right from the beginning, or are prone
to corruption. They suffer from a strange inferiority complex with the
intelligent and outstanding lawyer (before them). In many cases, I know such
Judges manage the senior advocate(s) to help them write judgement… `
(20) I have always supported the creation of National Judicial Commission, a body comprised of two senior judges, a lawyer, political representative and a respected citizen.
This 5-6 people will simply indulge into rampant cross-nepotism. (cross-nepotism -- X will favor relative of Y, Y will favor relatives of X).
(21) Corruption in judiciary is high but no where as high as in our politics or in the municipal authorities or in some other state departments.
"nepotism" is HIGHEST in judiciary as judges appoint judges and judges give judgments. And corruption is also as high as politics except that judges personally dont touch cash --- they deal via their relative lawyers. So except the technicality --- the corruption in HCjs and SCjs is now as high as Ministers, IAS, IPS and sometimes higher.
Questioner-As for reform, I am not holding my breath for the criminal turds in the Parliament to fix such criminal nexus because they are the ones who benefit most from it being criminals themselves. Murderers and thieves form a goodly fraction of the Indian parliament....we may want the Election Commission to start cleaning up election laws to stop this from happening. A cleaner parliament might manage to pass laws that restrict just criminal nexus between judges, lawyers, and criminals.
And for that matter, if having nexuses with lawyers and criminals (direct or via lawyers) is considered as crime, the courts are also full of criminal judges.
The judges are NOT murderers as such, but helping a murderer in court (the way judge Bhayana helped Manu Sharma) and then acquitting them despite loads of witnesses and evidences is also a serious crime (abetting a killer). And judges help 100s of such killers and extortionists. They are not much behind our MPs anymore.
Aside : you agree that MPs are defunct. Yet you are hostile to a referendum like CHEAP procedure so that commons make laws themselves. You also agree that MPs are criminals etc. Yet you oppose procedures by which we commons can expel MPs, MLAs, CM, PM etc. IOW, if MPs are bad, why hostility in giving away some of their powers to us commons? Or is it that you hate us commons more than MPs?
Many judges want PM to appoint their relatives as Public Prosecutor. Also, retired judges want position in commissions (human rights, women rights, animal rights, dalit rights, minority rights, law commission etc etc ) and Ministers often ask these retired judges to ask sitting judges to make favors. And many judges want plain vanilla favors from neta-babu (contracts for their relatives etc). So while PM has no official power, he has collaterals to trade with judges.
(22) Why are courts overloaded with cases, because the babu does not take appropriate action?
Now the question is : why didnt the babu take the appropriate action? Becuase judges DO NOT expel such defunct babus and so babus continue to behave like defunct. If judges were to expel some of the defunt babus, the other babus would reduce their defunctness.
Now question is : whyTH the judge does NOT expel defunct babus? Answer is : NEXUSES. The babus give tons of favors to judges. eg judges relatives get appointed as PPs and get fat cases from govt where they can make millions by losing. So judges allow defunct babus to continue.
(In West, the babu's defunctness' case would have gone to the JURORS. Since the Jurors do not have nexuses, they would promptly expel the babu. Since babu knows that Jurors are NOT nexused, he stays within limit, and so he is NOT as defunct as babu in India)
So , courts get overloaded becuase judges are defunct/corrupt.
Also, what you say that "courts are overloaded as babus do NOT do what they are supposed to" is correct. But in equally large number of cases, govt is overloaded as judges throw stones after stones in babu's ways. . example : illegal constructions. In large number of cases, when a babu goes to demolish them, a judge will crawl out of woodwork, take bribes, and issue stay order (Indian judges are MOST notorious for stay orders. One of the worst cases I know was stay order thrown on demolish of slums on a PRIVATE plot ... the case went on 12 years).
And likewise, one reason why criminals are multuplying in numbers is becuase judges dont punish them due to their nexuses with criminals via lawyers. So when ppl see criminals getting bail and walking out free, more and more ppl become criminals, and so more crimes and so more court cases. As there are more criminals, police is burdened, and so are courts.
So here too, it is judges who are increasing burden on police and courts, NOT other way round.
(23) How will `Appeal by Jury be possible ?
"Appeal by Jury" is very much possible. All we need is some 4-5 page long law to be passed in Parliament. The appeal can be implemented in TWO ways
1) The District Court Jury will consist of 12 citizens chosen from entire district
2) For appeal, the State Court Jury will consist of 12-more citizens chosen from whole state. The Jurors will cancel the verdict, will mean ret-trial in any OTHR district in the state
3) For further appeal, the National Court Jury will consist of 12-more citizens chosen from whole nation. The Jurors will cancel the verdict, will mean ret-trial in any OTHR district in the nation
Second way is:
1) A case will be heard in District Court by the Jury
2) If a person wants appeal, he can appeal before a Grand Jury in HC. The If majority of Grand Jurors agree, they will send the case to five randomly chosen District Courts to decide if the decision of previous Jury was correct
3) The cases in all five district courts can in parallel if both parties agree, or will run in sequence
4) If over 3 out 5 district courts' Juries disagree with first Jury, then verdict of the previous Jury is cancelled and status quo (as before the first trial) is restored.
5) If a person wants appeal, he can appeal before a Grand Jury in SC. The If majority of Grand Jurors agree, they will send the case to nine randomly chosen District Courts to decide if the decision of previous Jury was correct
6) The cases in all nine district
courts can in parallel if both parties agree, or will run in sequence.
7) If over 5 out 9 district courts' Juries disagree with first Jury, then verdict of the previous Jury is cancelled and status quo (as before the first trial) is restored.
It is indeed possible to get rid of judges in HC/SC and use Jurors.
The advantage is tremendous --- HCjs/SCjs are known to be nexused to the core with elitemen and high criminals like full time tax evaders, NPA creators etc. Using these nexuses, the powerful economic criminals walk out of court free no matter how many frauds they commit. But these criminals cant form nexuses with 1000s and millions of Jurors all over the State/Nation, and so they will get hunted down in the state.
(24) I have more than reasonable knowledge to say that SC judges are by and large very very honest.
Then how do you explain nepotism in SC? Why would an honest guy resort to nepotism, and if he nepotic (or favoritist), how is he honest?
The SCjs' nepotism TRANSLATES in corruption. SCjs routinely ask LawMin Law Ministry babus to appoint their sons or nephews or relatives as public proscutors. And these PPs get tons of money from corporates for losing the case. A person does wrong to make himself rich or his son or his relative is very much equivalent to `we commons get robbed`.
Also, pls do explain how SCjs decided to promote judge Bhayana (Jesicaben fame) to Delhi HC. Bhayana was notorious for his bribery, and SCjs KNEW that he has been deliberately stalling the case to help the accused. Despite explicit knowledge of judge Bhayana's defunctness, SCjs promoted him. Well, given that criminals' father is worth Rs 300cr, it is easy to know what made SCjs do so.
SCjs and HCjs are already abusing their powers.
Look the list of people who get appointed as SCjs and HCjs, and ask anyone about their relatives. Over 100 out of 99 are nephews, brother etc of eminent judges and eminent lawyers.
In Guj-HC, so far, I have enumerated list of 10 lawyers who made mere Rs 500,000 for their first 10-12 years of their practice. Their dad/uncle becomes judges, and boy, within 3 years, it crosses Rs 50 lakhs.
Questioner-I am not sure a SCj can just create laws to that effect to solve the KEY problem our judocracy faces - rampant judge-lawyer nexus and rampant judge-criminal nexus (direct or via lawyer). --- it is not his place since he is part of the judiciary, no?
SCjs *can* make following changes
a)Anyone whose name
is being considered for HCj position, his name will be disclosed 6
months before he is made HCj. So that if anyone in commons has information about his
defunctness, they can write it to SCjs and also post it on net.
b)His and his relatives wealth and wealth of trusts of which he or his relatives are members will be posted on the net (just as MP candidates are required to state their
c)Names of all his relatives in current and past judiciary too will be posted on net
Have they done even this? NO. Why not?
The above 3 steps will drastically reduce their ability to promote their relatives into judocracy.
In US, judges' names are broadcasted 3-4 months before they become judges, and commons are free to write reasons why that person must not be made judge. Why are Indian judges hostile to disclosing even the names of people who are likely to become judges?
And in most meaningful democracy, judges and intellectuals etc also trust Jurors. In India, they dont. So is Indian democracy meaningful?
(25) Why do banks in India use goons for re-collection
and not in US?
Because judges in India are defunct. So it goes both ways. The judges dont assist banks in collecting debts and in case a criminal gets arrested, the judges would acquit him if he can hire a lawyer close to the judge.
So criminalization of loan-recollection has been due to
defunctness of judges.
And same way, the politics has become crime field because of judges. The judges, due to nexuses with lawyers etc, acquit the criminal, and so criminal becomes stronger and forces good guys to flee. So finally voters have only one of the 3-4 criminals to pick from.
(26) Why are laws not implemented in India ?
The implementing authorities in India are NOT MLAs/MPs/Ministers but
the judges. It is the judges, who by issuing punishments on irresponsible
babus/policemen decide if babus/policemen will "implement" the law or
not. If judges punish/lazy corrupt babus, the babus would
reduce corruption and become prompt, and the law will get implemented.
So the laws are NOT being implemented in Indias judge
as DELIBERARELY do not punish the officers who do not implement the laws.
(27) Why should wealth of trusts of NBJPRIE(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) should be declared and not only personal wealth?
Most Nbjprie keep their assets in charity trusts and companies, not in their name per se.
So all this hoopla that we should know wealths only what is in their name is nonsense.
IMO, we should enact a law by which ALL trusts assets along with Tax ID of trustees become public. That way, we will know how much land, money etc Nbjprie own in trusts.
(29) The Judiciary does not have power to conduct investigations on ministers, MPs, judges etc via the CBI etc or to punish them.
The Judiciary has power to imprison anyone in the country and order investigation against the person. Only the president and Pm , when in power have immunity against imprisonment. Please see this statement of Supreme Court -
limits of power exercised by the Supreme Court when it chases injustice, are the sky itself, a Bench of the apex court has
That the Supreme court is not doing so, shows that the judges of Supreme Court are corrupt.
(1) How MRCM decreases poverty
The rents from GoI plots, including IIMA, JNU etc will reduce poverty and increase class I-X education in commons. The biggest reason why commons drop out is poverty and reduction in poverty will reduce drop out rate.
As per commons going to IIMA, How many, WHAT PERCENTAGE, of IIMians come from slums? less than 1%. And what % of IIMians dont have running water at home? Perhaps less than 5%. So much for "IIMA is giving education for commons".
(2) Regarding rent on IIMA plot
Are you suggesting that we starving commons should let IIMA , JNU use plot for free? Why this dariayadili and khairat for a college that otherwise professes capitalism and socialism? If IIMA cant pay, they should relocate to place where land is cheap, or manage with lesser land. IIMA manufactured 200 MBAs a year and that can be done in 10 acres. They dont need 100 acres for this. And if they still want 100 acres, they better cough up the rent --- I dont believe in free lunches. The IIMA grands make Rs 15,00,000 to Rs 50,00,000 a year after they graduate, and I wish them more. But they are not some poor starving people who need subsidies. I support subsidizing food, medicine, education for poor --- I dont like subsidies for rich.
Do you know that many countries who have HIGHER per capita iron (ore) have stopped mining and instead depend on imports from India and Brazil?
We MUST STOP all exports of iron ore. And royalty to ores must go to commons and military.
Please dont support crooks of BJP, CPM and Congress who are siphoning all the mines' money away instead of giving it to commons and Military.
(3) Iron ore from Bellary was exported to China at around USD 60+ even in 2002. That it was sold at Rs. 100 per Tonne shows the ignorance or lack of knowledge of the reporter, who gave this newsu .
Rs 100/tonne is mining cost. Thats the price the root level sub-contractor sells to contractor. You know how mining business works --- the guys who bribe neta , IAS , judges and forms partnerships with them are the ones get contracts from Govt. Many of them dont even bother to visit the site and give lump-sum sub-contract to leaf ground level guys who work at mines. Rs 100/tonne is what these guys get.
As of now, the cost of extraction for captive mining for SAIL and Tata Steel is between Rs 250 and 325 per tonne, while the market price (iron ore) is around Rs 2,000 per tonne.
So there is HUUUUUUUUUGE profit margin in mining business. And this margin goes into pockets of elitemen (who hire criminals) and neta, IAS, judges etc who are often partners. The profit margin together with corruption in IPS, judges has created network of criminals around mines. The mess is mainly because 'educated' people oppose giving mine royalties DIRECTLY to us commons.
I am talking about RAW costs, not taxes, royalties, bribes given to neta, judges, and hafta given to criminals. Rs 250/tonne is what SAIL pays ---- and SAIL has habit of over-invoicing left, right and center. So if Rs 250 is what SAIL pays per tonne, surely, real ground level cost wont be above Rs 100. That is common sense, and I dont need google for that.
IITs and many other GoI-owned engineering colleges should be made part of military.
Those who join will have to serve defense forces and related dept for 11 years after they pass out.
The depts in IITs not useful for military should be dismantled.
All colleges except those related with military and medical should be de-subsidized. eg IIMA should be de-subsidized. And land rent should be charged on the plots they occupying.
(4) What is the mathematics of costs and profits and royalties of mining ?
Consider Natural Gas
The international price is $280 per tmc (thousand cubic meters) as in Jun-2008. The cost of extraction is about $20 per tmc .(Prices at which the commodity like gas, petrol, coal etc will be sold will be decided by discretion of NLRO initially and later by bidding (market ) )
Lets say if Indian gas extracting companies were to sell natural gas at international prices. And profits are dispatched to us Indians (citizens).
Production = 27.8 billion cubic meter = 27,800,000 thousand cubic meters = 27,800,000,000 cubic meters = 27,80,00,00,000 cubic meters = 2780 cr cubic meters
profits = 260 dollars per thousand cubic meter , assuming Jun-2008 selling and cost prices = $0.26 per cubic meters
Total profits in dollars = 2780 cr * $0.26 = 723 cr dollars
Rupees for dollars = Rs 45 per dollar
So profits in rupees = Rs 32,535 cr
Population in crores = 110 cr
Amount per capita per year = about Rs 300 per common per year
IOW, every Indian would get Rs 300 per year if natural gas royalties were to go to us Indians.
. IOW, the miners make HUGE profits, and not necessarily keep all. They might have to share with Ministers, judges, IAS, IPS etc. But how do they ensure that their low royalty bids win? No magic --- walk into District Collectors office in Porbander District, Gujarat to get form to get mining licence, and the local criminals will make you disappear within minutes !! IOW, using criminals, the bid filing is kept a closed oligarchic process and that ensures that lowest bids arrive, and the miner makes the huge profit.
But the local miner who runs the local criminals is a small pawn and a small beneficiary in the whole game. The criminals require protection from IPS and local judges, and the IPS would protect these criminals ONLY if HomeMin and CM approves and the local judges will protect these criminals iff the HCjs approve. If the mine profits are huge, like Bellary Iron Ore mines, then the money chain goes all the way to Supreme Court judges and PM, Central Ministers and CBI.(Because the Supreme Court judges, PM, Central ministers, etc. are only interested in big profits )
The end result is horrible -- since mining royalties are so low, the Govt income is peanuts. And so GoI has to resort to taxes like VAT etc which ruin small traders and ruin commons as VAT is regressive in nature. And reduction in royalty incomes also reduces funds necessary to build courts, policemen, Military.
(5) What is the mining mafia and who all are involved in it ?
(MCC= Maoist Communist Centre)
The above article link gives a glimse of how deep the Mining Mafia is.
There are many Mining Mafia in India
1. Iron Ore Mafia of Bellary
2. Coal Mafia of Bihar
3. Lime Stone Mafia of Gujarat
4. Granite Mafia of Karnataka, TN
5. Kota Stone, Marble Mafia of Rajasthan (Soharabuddin was killed because of this mafia)
6. Sandlewood mafia of TN
7. Elephant teeth mafia
8. Aluminium Mafia of Orissa
There are about 50-70 such mafia in India. The Mining Mafia are bigger than real estate mafia in terms of revenue. Most are at state or district-group level, but all pay protection money to Central Ministers, PM, SCjs and leaders of major Party. In addition, they pay bribes to all CMs , IPS and IAS. As per some reliable rumor mills, large percentage of CMs, Central Govt Ministers, party heads ,MPs, IAS, IPS are part of one or more of these Mining Mafia.
Mining Mafia is a big business in India. No wonder why so many young men want to become IAS, IPS. And no wonder why so many young men join BJP, Congress and CPM to become MLAs, MPs, Ministers, CMs, PM. Not political party (one rare exception aside) wants to cut these mafia. To be specific, Manifesto of BJP, CPM, Congress etc does NOT even talk about the problem of Mining Mafia nor does propose any solution at all.
The main minerals like Crude Oil, Coal, Iron Ore etc are under Center. And since it is under concurrent list, Center's writ prevails over that of State. Further, the Centra has tremendous powers over IAS, IPS cadres even when IAS, IPS is under State Govt. I am not denying that State Govt has powers --- they do. But center-state powers are in 65:35 ratio or more towards center. This was main reason why Shibu Soren was more interested in becoming Coal Minister in Center than CM in Jharkhand State. Because Coal Minister has more powers over Coal Mining than CM.But the coal mafia, which is dominated by upper caste elitemen, blocked him as Shibu Soren supports Tribal elitemen (not commons).
Lets divide the total sale price of ores into following 4 parts
1. Costs - Labor, electricity, transport etc
2. Royalties , Taxes like export duties etc (i.e. money that goes to GoI)
3. Miners' profits
4. Bribes Ministers, CMs, PM, MLAs, MPs, IAS, IPS, HCjs, SCjs get
Today, (3) and (4) are very very high because (2) is low. If (2) is raised then (3) and (4) will reduce. Which is why all intellectuals who are agents of elitemen, neta etc oppose all means by which (2) can increase.
if royalties go high, bribes will decrease. eg say costs are Rs 1000/tonne including market interest rates and normal profits of miners. And sale price is Rs 5000/tonne. Then maximum possible royalty is Rs 4000. Now if royalty Rs 4000, bribes IAS, IPS, judges, Ministers get will be zero. And a miner who puts bid of Rs 100 royalty will make excess profits of Rs 3900 and so will be able to give huge bribes. But Rs 100 bid can win the tender ONLY if these ones who file higher bids are beaten black and blue and stopped. This is why ALL Ministers (including CPM, BJP Ministers) all over India promote criminals in mining districts. And these criminals also retard the development, and this is main reason why mining districts are often least developed.
(6) MRCM - this law says that it would generate revenue for the poor using postal office to give them their money.
Firstly poor need employement not money. You give them money to just feed for a day. after that what ? after the mines get finished then what ?
A: Poor need both money and employment. MRCM does not reduce employment. In fact, MRCM (and proposed Wealth Tax on Land) it reduces cost of land which increases employment. MRCM gives money to poor without tax and so demand for goods will increase and thus increase employment. MRCM also includes royalties from bandwidth which are also for-ever.
And minerals are expected to last for over 200 years. Further, MRCM also includes land rent from Govt plots and they are almost for ever. So MRCM will supply money to poor for several decades to come. has long. MRCM reduces poverty within months --- something employment generation programs will take years. And it can be implemented with just 200,000 clerks.
Initially, MRCM uses family as unit and family heads as point of interface. There are 26 crore families in India, and over 95% have ration card. Those who have bank accounts dont need new account. Say 25 crore family heads dont have bank or post office account. Using Ration Card Number and Tahsil Code itself as initial post office account number, all 24 cr new accounts will be created at the local SBI branch or designated bank branch or post office (not all). Now at each SBI branch or Post Office, the clerk will need to take ration card number, picture, finger print of the family head. If one clerk can create 50 accounts a day, creating 25 cr accounts would need 25 cr / 50 = 50 lakh man-days. Existing PSU banks have over 600,000 clerks. So if 200,000 clerks are put on this job, they can create all accounts in one month. Now initially, there will be some inaccuracies, but fingerprint is a powerful tool to get rid of in-accuracies. If a person submits his fingerprints twice, the machine will eventually catch him in few days.
(7) Again I will say how will you communicate to the public about your MRCM and other issues. And suppose if you communicate, then will they agree with you. Lets suppose they agree with you then how Patwari (Village Officer), DM office will collect their votes. They (DM, patwari) have only this task?. At this time you have this type of 200 affidavit (like MRCM), is it practically possible to get vote on all these and to register them. Just impossible.
I will submit 200 affidavits. They will take about 500 pages. The fee will be 500 * Rs 20 = Rs 10000 . The clerk can scan 500 pages in 2-3 days. Rs 10000 more that covers his cost. What is "impossible" here? And citizens will decide which affidavit he wants to support, For each time he files YES, he pays Rs 3. One clerk can register 200 requests a day. So his collection is Rs 600 per day of Rs 15000 per month (assuming 25 days in a month). This covers his salary of Rs 8000. So cost of PC , camera etc everything will get covered in 5-6 months.
If 72 crore citizens decide to register YES on 200 affidavits, then I will combine all RTR affidavit into one affidavit. Similarly, I will group all Jury based affidavits. So all 200 affidavits will get combined into 5-8 affidavits. And 72 cr citizens dont need to register YES, 50 cr are enough to decide the fate. So if 50 cr citizens want to file 8 YESes, and if one clerk can register 200 YESes a day, then we need (400 crores / 200 ) < 2 crore clerk days. So 100,000 clerks can do this in 200 days. IOW, the process can executed in about 6 months. The Rs 3 fee they collect will pay for their salaries.
Whether citizens will register YES -NO will depend on affidavit. eg if you dislike MRCM for any reason, you need not register YES. But there are people who make barely Rs 50 a day or even less. They might like the idea of getting 100% ethical Rs 300 to Rs 400 per person per month and they might like MRCM.
(8) IF JNU pays 60 crore rent - it has to make that kind
of money - from where will it get the money - most likely by raising fees -
then what happens to the common man.
JNU plot is worth Rs 16000 cr by a pessimistic valuation of Rs 40,000 per sqm. So rent is Rs 480 cr per year . And if I take better valuation, it would be a bit more. So every common will get about Rs 5/year from this JNU rent
Please explain me -- how is common man adversely effected? To start with, what % of students in JNU you know or think are "commons"? Only 12% of people in age group 18-30 in India manage to enter college. And JNU needs fluency in English which over half of the people in this 12% dont have. Most people in JNU come from urban areas, where some 50% people live in slums. How many JNUites grew up in slums? Perhaps not even 1%.
The Rs 5 commons will get from JNU plot and Rs 800 or more from all mines and plots will enable many commons to improve their primary education. So by giving rent free plots to airports, IIMA, JNU etc you are only ruining education of commons not helping them.
The rent on land plots does NOT end with IIMA and JNU. There are merely starting points. It includes ALL GoI plots except agency is exempted by commons thru an explicit referendum and Jurors.
To be specific-
a) Airports will have to pay land rent to us commons
b) All colleges which got land plots GoI will have to pay land rent (except those affiliated with Military) to us commons
c) Cricket stadiums which got GoI lands will have to pay land rent.
d) All sports stadium will have to pay land rent
e) Most Govt depts like Tourism will be privatized and will have to pay land rent
f) The judges will be given HRA of Rs 10000 to Rs 30000 a month or a 4 BHK flat, and plots under bungalows will be rented out. Same for most IAS, MPs and Ministers. Spare PM, CM and may be 10 more Ministers, NO ONE will get anything more than 4 BHK apt.
h) President post will be abolished and entire President House plot will be rented to builders.
And many more.
(9) How do you plan to execute to distribute the money to all the citizens of India? How will you do the verification of the beneficiaries?
A-The money will be deposited in every common's account in local post office or local SBI branch. If every common makes two withdrawals in a month, we have 114 cr commons, and so we have 228 cr withdrawals in a month. The withdrawals can be only in denomination of Rs 100. So clerk's task is simple, he has to dispense only Rs 100 notes with him. As of now, a clerk can dispense 200 cash cheques a day or 5000 cash cheques a month. So to handle 228 cr transactions, we need 228cr/5000 < 5 lakh clerks. This is gross upper bound, as many may withdraw only once a month. Only adults will make withdrawal and so number of commons who make withdrawal will be 80 cr and not 113 cr. So if we take 120cr withdrawals a month, we need < 2.5 lakh clerks. As of now, SBI has 300,000 clerks. So the logistics of dispensing mineral royalties and land rent to each of the 114 cr in cash form is possible. As time goes, with ATM etc things will become more manageable.
There about 3 crore to 5 crore legitimate adult citizens
of India who have no ID. They can merely appear at Tahasildaar office and get
an ID based on just their name, picture (and tahasildaar will take the pix) and
finger print and NOTHING ELSE.
Later (within 4 months) additional information they will need to give is name of both parents, name of sibblings, name of children and IDs of each of them
Rest 70 crore adult citizens have IDs. They can use any ID. The only punishment is when one person collects MRCM money twice. The system using finger print will eventually ctach him
Now are you referring to "identity verification" problem? As of now, we have very shabby mechanism and so leakages will be there. But less than 5%. Better than 80% leakages in NREGS or IIMA-subsidies or JNU-subsidies or airport-subsides. So if MRCM law starts today, at least 95% of the money will go to us commons -- only 5% will leak. As time goes, I have proposed a law to reduce the leakages aka National ID System.
(10) On what criterion do we plan to "give" this money every month to all the citizens of India...is it like free money or a transfer of wealth or are these funds to be given to be collected via taxes ?How is your proposal any different from suggesting a tax cut that supposedly increases the spending power of the commons.
It is NOT free money .The money is from MINERAL royalties and land rent from GoI plots. As you know, the GoI plots such as IIMA plot, Delhi airport plot etc belong to us citizens. So why should we citizens NOT collet rents from these plots? IIMA is 100 acre and at Rs 40000/ sqm low ball, the land is worth Rs 2000 cr and rent at 3% a year will be Rs 60 cr a year or Rs 0.60 per common per year. And Delhi airport is 2000 acre and at low ball price of Rs 100,000/sqm, the land price is Rs 200,000 crores and so at 3% a year rent it is Rs 6000 cr or Rs 60 per citizen per year. GoI has 1000s of plots all over India. The rents from these plots can be a substantial amount for us commons. So it is NOT free money. It is rents from the plots we own. And it is royalties from the Mineral ores we own such as crude oil, alumina, iron ore etc.
It is NOT transfer of wealth or a tax cut.. The collection of rents from IIMA plot, JNU plot, airport plots etc is NOT transfer. We commons of India already own that land. So far, these plots have been used by elitemen free of rent aka fokatvaad. Now we at 'MRCM and Right To Recall' Group want to put an end to these fokatvaad aka socialism. So it is not transfer of wealth.
The tax cut will only befenit the elitemen and not us commons. I am against taxing elitemen to give money to commons. The wealth, income and inheritance taxes I have proposed are ONLY for Military, Courts, Police, Nukes, creating National-ID system, giving weapon-use trainning to all commons and so forth. There is no proposal as tax elitemen to feed commons. But there should be no tax cuts if there is deficit. We must raise wealth tax and inheritance tax to reduce decifit to zero.
The problem with govt keeping and spending the money is -- corruption. As you know, over 100 out of 99 IAS, IPS, judges, Ministers are corrupt to core. So when Govt spends the money, Nbjprie beocme rich and we commons starve to death. I support Govt funding on Military, Nukes, Courts, Police etc, But it is in best interest of all (except Nbjprie) that mineral royalties directly go to us commons.
The land rent is NOT a tax. Tax is something I have proposed to fund Military, Courts and Police and it is 2% of land value. It does not to commons as their money. Whereas rents from public lands, such as IIMA plot, Delhi airport plot etc go 33% to Military and 67% to commons.
(11) You talked about Rent from Delhi Airport, but pray tell us who do you propose will pay this rent. Airlines? But then Airlines would conveniently pass on the rent load to passengers and passengers in turn would stop flying owing to high fares.
Consider Delhi Airport. It serves 2 cr passengers a year. The plot rent can be Rs 6000 cr per year at mkt price of Rs 100000/sqm. It would Rs 3000 per passenger. Consider an eliteman who used the Delhi airport 20 times in a year. But by not charging him land rent of Rs 3000 per flight, his richness increased by Rs 600,000. And every common of India lost Rs 60 per year as he did not get any land rent from the Delhi Airport plot he owns. So are you suggesting that elitemen should be give rent exemption and we commons should starve?
Now a passanger who comes on Delhi airport could be staying in Hotel which charge Rs 5000 a day. Doesn’t he pay the land rent to the hotel? Well, same way, he has to pay to use the airport plot. Sorry, no socialism.
(12) How will crores of citizens come to know that MRCM affidavit has been submitted?
I will first describe a real event. In around year 2002, GoI made a scheme that every senior citizen whose income is below Rs 50000 a year will get Rs 200 per month (pension reached by postal order to their homes and a affidavit was required to be filed for income declaration; for false affidavit, there is penalty of six months; so there was very less chances of corruption) . GoI did not advertise the scheme in TV, newspaper, radio anywhere. Yet, within a short span of say 9-10 months, almost every senior citizen who was eligible was enrolled in the scheme. How did the word spread? When something is in immediate, personal and direct interest, and simple to follow ,the words spreads like electric current.
Once citizens force PM to print `Citizens Voice-Transparent complaint / Proposal System` in the Gazette, and once MRCM affidavit is filed -- because MRCM is in direct, immediate and personal interest, the information on MRCM affidavit will spread equally fast. The task a citizen has to do is --- only visit Patwari’s (Village Officer) office for 10-15 minutes and pay Rs 3 fee. And since MRCM is in his direct and immediate interest, he will tell as many neighbors, relatives, friends etc about it. This is how word on MRCM affidavit will reach to crores of citizens within few days.
Today, media gives information which cannot be verified and so in unreliable.
But `Citizens Voice` will give reliable information, information which can be verified by every person. So, when few lakhs support MRCM via the Citizens voice- transparent complaint / Proposal system, other people of the country will come to know that there is something which genuinely people are supporting , something which is in the interest of the country. Then , MRCM will spread like wild fire.
Questioner- How are we going to handle a situation when
duplicate affidavits are filed ? For example, once
MRCM draft is submitted, politicians can submit their own versions of draft and
try to create confusion among people by creating negative propaganda about RTR
party's draft. In such a situation the peoples choice can get scattered. One
Draft will say all the money through MRCM should go to public, as we are
already allocating money for Defense Budget. Many people might support this
draft, as they think that they will get more money.
One draft will say Private properties should also be included. Many people might support this draft too, as they think that they will be entitled to get more money.
MRCM-1 : 33% to Military, 66% to citizens , no private land
MRCM-2 : 0% to Military, 100% to citizens , rent on private land
Citizens may register YES on both. Or say they register YES on MRCM-2 only. Fine --- in any case MNCs will suffer huge loss, and then their capacity to buy media will be damaged. With RTR-DD-CEO, the paid-media will further weaken.
And activists can be explained the importance of Military. So later 33% royalty to Military can added. Or wealth tax will be increased by 2%.
The proposal to collect rent on private land will not find activists. The activists are not stupid. They will see that if private land-owners are asked to pay rent, then it is as good as taking away their lands. And it is possible. But if such thing is done, then talented private individuals like doctors, engineers etc will all flee to USA. Then who will serve citizens? Babu? Social worker? Activist? Neta?
IOW, activists can be fooled as long as drafts dont reach their hands. But TCP is heavily draft centric. So drafts cant be hidden from activists. So bad drafts' badness will become very visible
The paid-media is powerful, but please also see its
limits. It cannot convince you that 2 + 2 = 5 . IOW,
against hard facts, the paid-media falls flat. The best paid-media can do is
And to see the weakness, please see the FACT that both --- Anna and Arvind Kejriwal have been forced to support (even though lip service) to RTR. They would have wished that RTR does not come up. But just handful of us, took RTR-draft to a few hundred of activists of Anna-Arvind, and chain reaction started. And despite paid-media completely ignoring RTR, despite paid-media giving full coverage to Anna-Arvind's draftless RTR and giving coverage to Subramanian Swamy --- RTR-draft made so much progress.
Now all this is without TCP and without RTR-DD-CEO.
So with TCP, paid-media does not stand a chance.
The bottom line is to make the commons read the draft, and ask them not to believe in lip service.
(1) What is the real cause of inflation?
Inflation in general increases ONLY when rupees(M3) are manufactured in form of loans etc and given to the rich increasing rupee volume per citizen,increasing rupee supply and decreasing value of rupee and increasing the value of other items such as food, oil etc.
As per RBI figures, rupee volume per citizen(total amount of rupees in the form of cash, deposits, coins divided by the number of citizens) in 1950s was approximately Rs. 65 per citizen and today it is approximately, Rs. 50,000/- per citizen.
The value of everything is relative and is determined according to demand and supply.
Let us consider this with a example. Say there is a market and nothing else for simplicity sake. In the market, there is a seller selling 10 kilo potatoes and a buyer having Rs.100. Say, in next scenario, the seller has instead of 10 kilo potatoes, 20 kilo potatoes, will the cost of potatoes decrease or increase ?
Easy guess- It will decrease since the supply of potatoes has increased.
In another scenario, say that the seller has 10 kilo potatoes but there are now two buyers with each Rs.100 . Now, will the cost of potatoes increase or decrease ?
Easy guess- The cost of potatoes will increase since the supply of rupees has increased and the value of the rupee will decrease and other items costs including food, petrol, gas etc. will increase.
This same thing happens in reality.
(2) Who manufactures rupees and Where did the rupees (rupees =M3 is defined as sum of all notes, coins and Fixed deposits ) come from ?
The Reserve bank has licence to manufacture it and also Scheduled Banks (Banks licenced by Reserve Bank to manufacture rupees in form of F.Ds). There is no Gold standard which was abolished since decades, the RBI-gov on instruction of the government manufactures them.
Only RBI can print notes and mint coins but scheduled banks like SBI, ICICI etc, can also manufacture rupees (M3) in the form of F.Ds.
This increase in supply of rupees decreases the value of rupees and increases the costs of other items including food , oil prices and causes general inflation.
(3) Why does the RBI and scheduled banks manufacture rupees ?
They do so for the rich.Let me give you a example. Say there is a rich company, which has connections with the RBI governor, finance minister etc. They take loan of Rs. 1000 crore from a government bank and pay back Rs. 200 crore.And since they have connections, they will tell the RBI-gov, FM, etc that they will give them cuts/bribes in return for allowing to declare their company bankrupt.
So the company is declared bankrupt.Now , if the bank declares this loss of Rs. 800 crore, then the bank will also become bankrupt and the bank customers also will loose their deposited money and the customers who are common citizen-voters will raise hue and cry and the government will have to face wrath of public. To avoid this, the government asks the RBI-governor/scheduled banks to manufacture Rs. 800 crore rupees. This excess of supply when comes into the market will decrease the value of rupee and increase the cost of the goods.
(4) Rupee volume has increased almost thousand times from 1951 to date .Is that since GDP has also increased or since rupee was devalued?
GDP has increased only three times which does not account for the increase of rupee volume increase of thousand times.
Rupee has devalued compared to dollar and other currencies only 25-30 times which does not account for the increase of rupee volume increase of thousand times.
(5)Inflation increases due to stocking of goods by traders or increase in exports creating shortage or due to stock market , future market speculations or shortage of production.
All these are local factors and do not cause in general increase of prices , that is inflation.
In stocking of goods, the stocking will cause a shortage and increase the prices, but no one can/will stock for ever and on release of the goods into the market ,the prices will decrease while the general price increase is ONLY UPWARD and prices do not fall once they have rosen.
Similar is the price fluctuation trend seen with speculation of food and other items in stock and speculative marketes.
Not all items are exported , so exports do not account for the general upward trend of increase in prices.
(6) This price rise=inflation affects all citizens , poor and rich, those with connections and without connections ?
No. Those who are poor and without any connections become more poor as price of items increase. While the rich, elite form a nexus with the government and illegally get the manufactured rupees for FREE!!
In a way, the rich, connected people are looting the poor, unconnected common people !!
(7) Petrol prices increased due to conspiracy of the government. Why did the petrol prices did not increase uptil now?
Petrol prices like other items also depend on the rupee volume and demand and supply principle. Since the rupee volume per citizen has increased, the value of rupee decreased and petrol prices increased. Only difference here is that the petrol price is artificially controlled upto a certain extent, but after a limit , the government has to increase the price which would have anyway increased if the petrol price would not have been regulated. So, 80% of the reason why petrol prices increased is illegal rupee manufacturing.
(8) Inflation , that is general price rise is due to increase in petrol prices due to increase in transportation cost.
Share of Petrol cost and transportation cost is only 2-5 % in the cost of a item. For example, cost of rice was Rs. 20 per kilo five years ago, of which share of transportation was Rs. 1 . Petrol price increased 1.5 times, so if cost of rice increased due to petrol price increase alone, the cost of rice now should have been maximum Rs. 21, but now the actual cost is Rs. 40 per kilo.
So, the increase in petrol price and transportation cost does not account for the general price rise of items or inflation.
(9) What is the solution for stopping this? We need to remove the government and make good policies.
This illegal rupee manufacturing for the rich has been happening during Congress and also BJP governments` rule. So, removing the government and installing other government will not solve the problem.
Following are the solutions-
a) Right to recall Reserve Bank Governor and RTR-FM- Presently , the RBI governor illegally manufactures rupees for the rich on instructions of the government. Once the posts of RBI governor and FM are DIRECTLY accountable to the masses, they will not do so. Please see the procedure of RTR-RBI governor in chapter 9 of http://www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf
b) The RBI governor should be able to manufacture rupees ONLY with the approval of 51% of the citizens of India. For this, we need Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure (see chapter 1 of http://www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf)
Please also see chapter 23 of www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf for details of `Real Cause of Inflation`
(10) Are progressive taxes, percentage with respect to the income or wealth which increases as income or wealth increases. For example , income tax ,are they unconstitutional ?
Progressive tax does not violate equality. The taxes are used to pay for police, military etc to protect wealth. Now cost of security rises more than linearly with wealth needed to be secured. I.e of cost of securing Rs 1cr of gold is say Rs 100,000/yr, then cost of securing gold of Rs 2cr can be more than Rs 200,000/yr. Hence progressive tax rate is constitutional.
Two set of parallel laws, almost amounting to "two nations inside one land" doesnt violate equality? Well, that is YOUR interpretation of constitution. And also SCjs' interpretation of Constitution, and perhaps the fact most SEZ owners have SCjs' sons on their panel and paying crores of rupees had no impact on SCjs' decision. But the way we 105cr commons INTERPRET constitution, SEZs violate equality.
If Banks allow 100% CRR (Credit
Reserve Ratio) accounts (money in those accounts cannot be lent) to
liquidate DIC (Depositors
Insurance Company) provision ,
what would be their (banks`) 'interest' in accepting such a deposit in the
first place? How would that be different from stashing away cash/gold in a
With DIC (Depositors Insuranse Company), banks have become reckless and started giving out loans without any reason, and this has created a huge bubble (instability). Liquidate DIC, give option of 100% CRR to depositor and tell him that if he wants interest, *he* has to risk his money and find a good bank on his own. NPA (Non-performing Assets) will reduce within months.
The interest in 100% CRR account will be less. It is better than stashing gold because
1. Fund transfer is possible
2. There is insurance against theft
It will fetch less interest, but many people still use it. The 100% CRR will be insured by Govt. The higher interest bearing accounts will be held ONLY by private bank, will not be insured by Govt and every passbook, cheque etc will have a clear warning that "GoI and citizens will pay nothing in case bank goes bust, and this bank may go bust any minute". Similar to warning on cigarette packs that "smoking can kill you". After all, truth is that banks do go bust and so let truth be written on every passbook.
This may or may not save depositors. After all, despite warning, people do smoke and do die of cancer caused by smoking. But this surely lessen the economic burden of us commons -- we dont need to save depositors when bank pops out. And it also pushes the moral burden on the depositor -- he was told that his bank may go bust. So no tears.
(12) What is the solution for stopping manufacturing of rupees by RBI every time dollars and other foreign currencies depositsare made in India ?
We need to modify the system as follows : When a person deposits $1000, his entry should stay as $1000 till he explicitly converts it. And when he converts it, he will be sending a cheque to private company in dollars and getting rupees from him. i.e. no rupees will be manufactured when dollar comes. The GoI buy dollars needed for Military and other GoI needs only. The dollar for petrol imports and all imports will have to be obtained from private sources only. And income in dollars will NOT be tax exempt and expenditure in dollars i.e. imports will NOT be deductible from income. And in addition, we should impose 100% to 300% customs duty, to be paid in dollars only. And we should enact these laws using YESes of commons ONLY. We must not impose it by bribing MPs and getting legislation in Parliament.
(13) What are the pro and cons of having Gold as a currency ?
When will any entity, be rupee or dollar or gold become "currency" in India?
When almost all Indian citizens need it and almost everyone see that that entity will enable them to buy goods in future. And if one entity cant meet all needs of everyone, then there will be multiple currencies. eg in India today, rupee is dominant currency. But people do use gold, silver and dollars for hoarding, exchange in a limited way.
Now every Indian citizen needs Military, Police and Courts - directly or indirectly and payment to these services is done in form of taxes - excise, income tax etc. Now if GoI were to demand tax payments in dollars, then importance of dollar will increase. If GoI were to demand tax payments in gold, then importance of gold will increase and if GoI demands tax payments in rupees, rupees will become importance. But if Military, Police and Courts themselves become unimportant and incapable, then the demand for rupees will decrease and demand for gold/dollars will increase.
Now only advantage of Gold over existing rupee is that elitemen cannot increase its volume arbitrarily. But that can be attained by enacting a law that RBI chief cant increase rupee volume without explicit consent of us commons. Hence the "Citizens Rupee System" I have proposed has this advantage of the gold, that elitemen cannot increase the volume as per their whims. Also, in the Citizens Rupee System, the newly manufactured rupees are spent ONLY for Military, Police and Courts. So the flaw of existing rupee system where in elitemen can pocket the newly manufactured money via SBI etc goes away.
But gold has disadvantage that citizens cant increase the volume even if they want. Whereas in Citizens Rupee System , citizens can increase money supply. And gold has another fatal flaw that enemy can take away gold, while rupee does not have this flaw. The enemy cannot take away rupee, because he has to bring rupees to India to get anything valuable. And once rupee is make 100% electronic with all transactions tracked by ID, thefts of rupees as well black transactions will drastically reduce, which will improve tax collection and improve Military, Police and Courts. This cannot be done with gold. If gold is made currency, the undocumented economy will thrive and may also increase.
And another fatal flaw of Gold is that it will makes it difficult for GoI to fund war against USA, China etc . In event of war against USA, China etc GoI may need tons of currency to buy goods, pay soldiers, pay civilians for services etc. Now if gold is the only currency, then GoI will have to obtain gold. Gold can be hidden or sent out of India. So the elitemen will hide it or send all their gold to Swiss banks so that GoI cant touch it. So GoI will run out of currency and would lose the war against USA, China etc. So gold is worst and most fatal form of currency if war against US, China etc is a likely scenario.. Now I am assuming that India *will* have to fight several wars against US, China, Saud, Pak, BD etc and so I oppose gold.
(14) Which is more bad, subsidies or Tax rebates for the economy of the country?
Both, subsidies and tax rebates are bad.
But subsidies are worse.
When GoI says : "earn money from industry A, and instead of usual 35% tax rate, pay a lower tax rate", the industrialists will
a) invest more in A or
b) wrongfully try to show that their income was from A and not from other sources.
(b) is what I call as diversion or deliberate mis-classification of income.
But here, the person has to at least do some activity to earn income in industry A or some other area from where he can siphon money into A.
But when GoI says that start industry A and GoI will be give Rs X crores as subsidy, many neta-IAS-judges-elitemen etc will start A only on paper and devour all subsidies. So GoI loses money and there is no industrial activity either.
IOW, in tax rebates, GoI loses money but some industrial activity does happen which will benefit society. While in subsidy, the neta-IAS-judges-intellectuals-elitemen chew away all subsidies and no activity may happen.
Now, I am hostile to BOTH. But I am more hostile to subsidy due to above reason.
But most intellectuals , who claim themselves as anti-subsidy are in reality supporters of subsidies that subsidize rich. eg Most oppose LPG subsidies but support land/cash subsidies given to JNU, IIMA etc. as IIMA, JNU etc subsidy goes mainly to the elitekids. The concerned citizens should be aware of their selective fraudulent opposition to subsidies.
(1) Why are military officers underpaid ?
As per MMS not being IMF (US) agent --- he became FinMin because IMF had put a condition before PVNR and ABV, and Indian elitemen that IMF will bail out India ONLY if MMS is made FinMin. IOW, commons of India or MPs of India did NOT make him FinMin, IMF did,
Army men are NOT highest paid, but in US etc they are well paid. eg in US soldiers get far more than policemen. In India too, they were well paid till 1990.
Now in India, they are paid peanuts compared to even policemen and similar skill level in private sector.
There is no clause in Constitution which says that salaries of military offiers MUST be linked with corresponding position in police. This guideline was made by Indira Gandhi, looooong back in early 1970s when corruption in police was not all that high and values of perks military got (central school, army public schools, clubs, pensions, plots etc) was very high compared to perks people got in private sector and police. By 1991, it was clear that soldier was getting LESS paid than a policeman and IAS even if all perks are included.
So in 1991, it was to time to change the guideline that linked salaries of soldiers with IPS. Salaries of soldiers should have been linked with official and presumed unofficial incomes of IPS. But MMS insisted that soldiers MUST not be paid more than policemen's official salary, and refused to raised salaries. He was no fool. He knew that IAS/IPS's salaries are now imaterial given the bribes they make.
The PMs and FinMins have CONSISTENTLY followed a wrong policy of under-paying soldiers for 16 years. Not 1-2 years, but 16 years. Thats too long a time to make genuine mistake. Whatever they did, now soldiers are highly demoralized. Less pay, and volley of insults from MNC-agents like ToI has created a volcano waiting to erupt.
(1) Does corruption reduce with increasing salaries of judges and officials?
In small cases, judges avoid taking bribes because there is risk of getting caught and not much money to be made. And in large case, they almost always take bribes. The solution is JurySys, Right to Recall judges, CITIZENS VOICE, Imprisonment by Majority Approval, Fines by Majority Approval.
there was never a reason for Ministers, IAS, IPS, judges to take bribes. And even if salaries go 10 times, they will keep taking bribes unless we citizens have procedures to expel, imprison, execute, fine them. Money is not a replacement of punishment.
In US, in 1950s, salaries of Govt officials did not increase at inflation rate. So officers didnt resort to bribes --- they started quitting. Because the Recall, JurySys ensured that if they take bribes, they would be land in prison. And as they started quitting, citizens increased the salaries and also offered option to re-join. IOW, when corruption is low, salaries etc automatically increase.
(2) IS POVERTY MAIN CAUSE OF CORRUPTION?
Even the lowest level in Govt is far better off compared to 80% of most commons. And if poverty was a reason why a neta-babu-judge-policemen takes bribes, then he would have stopped after making initial few lakhs, but we see that the bribe collection never decreases it only increases.
There are many Govt dept where procedures are so right that Govt employee gets no opportunity to collect bribes. eg consider a bank clerk. He has to pass the cheque in 1-2 days or return it. He has no discretion. So he does not take bribes and lives with lesser money compared to clerks in revenue dept who literally make Rs 100,000 to Rs 10,00,000 in bribes. Now both clerks come from similar background, and yet the bank clerk learns to be content with situation and accepts a mediocre living. Whereas the revenue dept clerk who has opportunity and no fear of punishment runs amok.
And yes, power is so much concentrated at top in that everyone desperately wants himself and his relatives to reach top spots in judocracy, netadom, babudom etc.
(3) People get the government they deserve?
Questioner: Once so happened, I booked some items in the luggage van of railways. ...
You are giving examples where stakes are in peanuts. Give examples where stakes are high.
Say you are running a factory. And pollution control guy comes and asks for bribes or threatens to shut down the factory. What you gonna do, what you gonna do?
If you dont pay bribe, he will shut down his factory. Your orders would go for a toss. The wages and interest costs will keep adding without revenue. The clients will walk away and may never come back again if you fail to keep delivery commitments.
So will you dare to refuse to pay bribe?
IOW, please confine to situations where stakes are high. Any 2 bit guy can whose stakes no more than peanuts can yell "see, I sacrificed peanuts, but did not bend principles". Big deal !!!
In one way, you can/should see these criminals as satellites of IPS/judges. IPS/judges want to collect bribes from businesses, but they cant as collecting bribes from 100s of business would expose them. So they sponsor criminals, offer them protection and ask them to collect haftas. You think that criminals took away your money. But 90% of what these criminals make goes top IPS, MLAs, Ministers, CM and judges.
And those who haven't paid bribes, are no saints. Many of them shamelessly support laws that create situations in administration where-in a businessmen etc is forced to pay bribes.
eg Consider the law that "judge would give verdict and not the Jury". Many of those who take pride in not paying bribes shamelessly support this bad law. Situation? The judge tells the aasil "you better hire my relative/friend as lawyer, or I will harass you to death". What choice does aasil have?
Those who support bad laws should be seen at par with those who are paying and taking bribes.
Do people get the judges they deserve?
Do people get the IAS/IPS they deserve?
I would focus on following statement of yours "they(IAS/IPS/Neta/Judge.,etc) are as corrupt as we(commons) probably are".
This statement is false. While we commons may be "potentially" as corruptible as neta, IAS, IPS, judges --- in reality most of us commons are not even 0.01% corrupt as any one of them. Some 80% Indians make less than Rs 20 per day. And of remaining 20%, some 15% make less than Rs 10000 per month. Its only top 5% who makes money that would fit "minimum" of IPS, IAS, judge or Minister.
So 80% Indians are non-corrupt. And 15% are only slightly corrupt. It is only 5% who give/take huge bribes.
Questioner-the 5% you speak of are; The businessmen, the politicians, the babus;
=> The ones who frame policies
=> The ones who run this country
=> The ones who create jobs/wealth
=> The ones who are the growth engines of India's 9% GDP.
A big part of wealth still comes from minerals. And crores of labor also work to create this 9% growth.
Questioner-If it werent for those 5%, India would still be begging for alms to foreign countries. Take for eg. reliance, had they not fuelled their growth with corruption, would it even have come into existence?
Due to bribery, we have LESSER industry. West has far less corruption, which is the reason why they have more industry. And Japan has far less corruption, which is why they have more industry. Corruption retards progress as it results into cornering and reduction of opportunities.
(4) Bribe is an engine oil that fuels the need of a speeding economy.
Boss, please do gather data from across the countries before building hypothesis. The economies which produce complex engineering goods, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, UK, US, Germany, Japan etc are the ones which have low corruption. So corruption, retards industry, does not fuel it.
Questioner-we are still a developing country. and so we are DEVELOPING ways to stop corruption.
Back in 1800s and early 1900s, when West and Japan were developing the corruption in police, courts and large number of areas (almost entire govt except foreign affairs and some weapons contracts) corruption was negligible.
And while we say India is developing, please do note that our growth is heavily dependent on imported technology. We are NOT manufacturing real complex stuff. This is the result of corruption. Corruption retards real manufacturing.
Questioner-When we are developed, we will have developed stronger anti-corruption laws.
If corruption goes on, chances are high that we will fall apart completely and become so weak that some country like US will just take over.
Consider years 1500-1757. Corruption in India was rampant and that in UK was lesser. Result? Industries increased in UK, it technology grew and later weapons improved. And by 1757, UK had conquered part of India and by 1857, it had conquered over half the India.
Questioner-As it is, it is being increasingly difficult for corruption these days.
The places where there is discretionary powers, corruption is HIGHER than it was in 1991. eg in courts, IAS and IPS. The only places where corruption went down is railway tix, some low level GoI transaction etc.
(5) Why is caste conversion rising ?
The reality is is : a large number of Hindu UCs want Dalits to stay illiterate and poor. Who else will clean their floors, wash their cloths, clean their utensils, clean their gutters and bathe their kids? So they hate to see missionaries giving cash and English education to dalits and tribals. Hence the violence.
And folks, Dalits and Tribals have their own mind. The poorest of the poorest person I have met till date is well aware of society, and is not hapless and brainless as many postors here try to project. I have met 100s of Dalit converts, who have read Gita and Bible both, and say that they decided to convert AFTER reading both. And this is despite the fact that they would lose CBR benefits after conversion.
Conversion is rising, and answer can be obtained by asking a different question "why didn't SC/ST convert till now?" Well, answer is CBR (Caste Based Reservation). CBR was a powerful tool that held Dalit/Tribal middle class, upper middle class and upper class in Hindu fold. But as privatization increases, CBR is becoming lame (Because there is no reservation in private, only in government departments). So few Dalits and Tribal middle class men find any reason to stay Hindu anymore.
And every upper class man who converts takes 10 middle class men with and 1000 poor with him (because of the influence they have in society). And every middle class man who converts takes 100 poors with him. For that matter, most missionaries in India are from dalit middle class or their fathers were dalit middle class, and are not imported.( http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_persecution_in_india.htm)
The biggest factor that is assisting them is -- decision of Indian upper middle class (mostly Hindu upper castes) to keep Dalits and Tribals poor and illiterate by denying them land rents over GoI owned plots/mines and denying them English education. This is what makes Dalits and Tribals go towards missionaries, who are willing to give them some cash (or benefits in kind, such as medicine) and English education as well.
Many Hindutvavadies think that they can win the battle by these goons and by electing corrupt neta like Modi.
Well, the goons' strength lies in corrupt judges, corrupt IPS and corrupt MLAs. In absence of corrupt judges, corrupt IPS and corrupt neta, goon will not even kick a cat, forget beating missionaries.
Perhaps this Hindutvavadies have not realized that these corrupt judges, corrupt neta and corrupt IPS would gladly help same missionaries when missionaries offer than twice the money, coupled with political pressures that will come from MNCs. As Hindutvavadies must be aware the top brass of Congress, CPM, BJP, IAS, IPS, CBI, Supreme Court etc are now on MNC payroll. And Hindutvavavdies should also grasp the fact that MNCs have assisted Vatican since 1980 in many many ways all over the world (e.g. in South Korea, a Christian is more likely to get promotion in MNC than a Buddhist). And MNCs in India will be more than happy to use their contacts in BJP, Congress, CPM, IAS, IPS, CBI and Supreme Court to assist Vatican and their missionaries.
So it is matter of time before this corrupt judges, corrupt IPS, corrupt neta et al join the missionaries. And when that happens, half the VHP goons will also join the missionaries and rest half will be prison if not dead.
And then some Hindutvavadies hope that corrupt neta like Modi can save them. Well, Advani (now Haaji Advani) stooped low to the extent of worshiping Jinnah who had ordered massacre of lakhs of Hindus and expulsion of crores of Hindus. His foster son, Modi, will overtake him when Vatican tighten screws on him via MNCs.
It is pity that all that Hindutvavadies could find to carry their agenda is bunch of goons and corrupt neta like Modi, and cant find anyone better.
The Upper Caste elitemen of India are openly hostile in providing good education to commons, and their hostility towards English education is immense. Though almost all UC elitemen send their kids to English medium schools or at least local language schools which teach English from grade-1, they insist that us commons' kids MUST not learn English till std-7. So English of us commons' kids will be weak for ever. The crooked UC elitemen have this design so that UC elitekids get ahead and us commons kids simply work as their servants. RSS and VHP schools DO NOT teach English to commons' kids for this reason only.
The affinity of English education in us commons is immense. So there comes missionaries to exploit this demand-supply gap. He says "become Christian and I will give quality English education to your kids". Now Dalits and Tribals are anyway fed up with UC elitemen and the atrocities inflicted by UC IPS, IAS, judges, elitemen etc. Too that, add the prospect of English education. So they happily convert.
The UC elitemen hate dalits getting English education more than missionaries. If Dalits and Tribals get English education, they may also defect to US, and then become much stronger in India after they send dollars earned abroad. This will drastically reduce the opportunities of their kids in future. Thats why they hate missionaries.
Aside : recently Modi, who is an OBC tried to make English compulsory for all kids in Gujarat starting std-1. Most BD, VHP and BJP workers in Gujarat, who are now OBCs, supported him. Guess who opposed him most? Not Congress. Not CPM (which has only a few leaders in Gujarat anyway). It was RSS and senior BJP neta (all were UCs !!), along with some Gandhivadies (who were also all UC !!).
Questioner- Do u support anti fraudulent conversion bill?
There are already existing laws in IPC which ban use of force or lies for ANY purpose, forget conversion. If force and lies are reason, we do NOT need any law to begin with.
The UC elitemen want the above bill to ban use of money and English education as means to convert. They know that once missionaries are stopped from offering English education for conversion, missionaries will stop teaching English. This is what these UC elitemen want --- they dont want commons to learn English.
And , why do you oppose use of cash and English education for conversion?
Hindu elitemen's desire to keep us commons weak in every way (not teaching us weapon us, not teaching English, not teaching us law etc) will incur huge cost to India.
Hindus donate HUUUUGE monies to temples. Now temple owners are hostile to use that money for improving us commons' level by teaching us weapon use, English, law etc. Thats another matter. But Hindus in general are very generous when it comes to donations.
. Almost all neta are now MNC , Vatican agent. This includes your beloved BJP neta. Just recently, VHP activists in Dang in Gujarat asked LKA to write letter to HomeMin and Foreign Affairs Ministry in center to expel a list of missionaries whose visa had expired and were doing conversion activities which go against visa conditions. LKA refused !!
LKA wants MNCs to ask ToI to support him or oppose him as less as possible. So LKA has become MNC agent and also a de-facto agent of Christianists as Christianists and MNCs have a tie up.
Questioner-As per this report there is a rise of Hindu population by 2.52%, and that of Christian population by.008% between the years 1991 to 1998.
Please do google on term crypto-christian.
The upper caste ruled congress was compelled to offer reservation …. The reservation for lower caste for safety of upper caste.(as otherwise the people would have mass converted and would have become against the upper castes . Similar thing happens in Naxal ridden area )
(6) Democracy runs better in small size countries and states.
Many confuse small size with democracy. A common argument given is that "See, vibrant democracy was possible in Athens because it was small in size". Well, it was because of democracy that such a small sized Athens became so strong that it could rule over a large area and left an impact that we remember even today. Athens had only 60000 adult males. To that, add 60000 females and some 120,000 children. So free population was 240,000. Such tiny population had over 300,000 slaves in Athens and had dominated territories around Athens which would be 10-20 times its population and size. Essentially, the democracy they followed made them so strong that they could enslave so many people and dominate so many others. So instead of saying that "democracy is possible only in small region/population", a more accurate statement would be "democracy makes small population so powerful that it can dominate over much larger groups".
As population/size increases , one only needs to change the procedure code so that larger population can participate. Thats about it. Otherwise size and democracy had nothing in common or nothing against.
In a "well designed" administrative system, the inefficiency if any will not be proportional to N, but will be proportional to log(N). And the increase in size is often accompanied with vast improvement in technology by which citizens can supervise the officers, provided laws to supervise those officers exist. The problem today is absence of these laws, not size.
It is exactly the point about the technological level for the given society which may be responsible for the inability to ensure "proper" representation. The larger the size, more difficult the actual physical and direct participation in decision making, and hence the greater need for representations and procedures - each of which introduce more and more opportunities to corrupt the process.
Yes, greater the need for procedures, but not representation. eg The technology today enables people to take 100-200 decisions directly every year. But how many decisions do we take directly as of today? Only 3 in 5 years (electing Corporator, electing MLA and electing MP). So the lack of direct control is more due to absence of procedures, not size.
Questioner: As long as opportunities are there, those who benefit from such corruption will always utilize them.
Not if citizens have procedures to punish the decision makers. eg Today we in India have no procedure to imprison a Supreme Court judge, Minister or even am IAS, IPS. And thats the reason why they openly collect bribe. Once procedures to imprison them, confiscate their ill gotten wealth etc come in the hands of commons, these people will learn to behave. Once again, the reason is lack of procedure, not size.
(7) Why do educated and concerned citizens fail to create a better alternatives? Why are we stuck with ABV, Pramod, Yechuri, Aruns, Narendrabhai, Karat, MMS, Rajmata, PC etc?
The educated ones fail to create better alternatives in Kerala,UP as well as rest of India as
1) Many concerned citizens believe in moral value and national character nonsense. The nonsense they believe is "improve the moral values and nation will improve". So they focus on moral education and character building nonsense. So they dont take interest in administration, courts etc where problems exists. So their participation in politics is zero, or confined to merely replacing one neta by another. They cant think beyond personality worshipping be Modi or Basu or Buddha or ABV or LKA or RagivG etc. So they do not spend time in thinking on what changes in administration, courts etc they should lobby for. So neta change, administration, courts etc remains same, and mess goes on.
2) Our textbook writing college professors, in order to please their elitemen sponsors, have filled textbooks with anti-common garbage. Only rants I read is "common Indians are castist; common Indians are communal; common Indian are emotional, crooks etc etc". And they hide the fact that ALL these vices are present in Indian Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) as well, plus Nbjprie have 2 more vices not in commons : nepotism and nexuses with criminals and other Nbjprie. So students in India, including concerned citizens, have become anti-democracy. So they advocate pro-oligarchy solutions only and oppose democratic solutions like right to replace/punish the corrupt, preferential voting, increasing election deposits,simplifying electoral form filling, etc. which will promote better candidates for the voters.
(8) Things have certainly become better in India, but also the same way in the West. The US has had democracy, elections, trial by jury for 200+ years, but women got the vote only about 10-15 years before they did so in India. (BTW, the British absolutely did not introduce universal suffrage to India).
Situation of women in US/UK was better than in India even before women got right to vote. For that matter Swiss gave right to vote to women much after India did. Nevetheless women's situation was far better.
British introduced election-procedure in 1934 and it was WITHOUT universal suffarge. One reason was that it was FIRST attempt and another was that a large section of India elite, including educated ones like lawyers, and many Congress members were also opposed to universal suffrage. As for Indian elites, most Indian princeley states did NOT introduce election-procedure even after invaders=Brits did. In 1936, people in Rajkot which was ruled by INDIAN King and NOT directly by Brits, held a demonstration with demand of conducting election. How did the king respond? He violently crushed them. So lets give credit to Brits for at least introdusing elections rather than cursing them for not giving Universal Suffrage.
Also, US's founding fathers and founding elite NEVER decreased democraticness from what Brits had left. Whereas India's founding fathers/elite DECREASED democraticness from where Brits had left by abolishing Jury System. I hope the fact Indian neta/babu/jufges/intellectuals/elite etc abolished Jury System in India late 1950s and in early 1970s will FULLY convince everyone and anyone that India's Nbjprie(neta-babu-judge-buddhijivi-intellectuals-elite) are OPPOSED to democratic-form of government. No further proof is required.
(9) Basic education (12th) should be a requirement to be elected to legislature. AND, a 3 month basic law course (in the local language or english) should be attended and _passed_ by the lawmakers who have no legal experience.
Over 75% (guess) MPs are graduate. Many are LLBs. And even an illterate person in India (or anywhere in world) knows basic laws like IPC etc. Educated MPs are as corrupt as illterate. So education etc will NOT improve their law-making abilities.
Also, MPs' job is to
1)present draft to Speaker
2)say YES/NO when Speaker schedules voting on that draft
MP is supposed to do (1) and (2) as per the wish/will of citizens. It is citizens' job to prepare the draft and submit it to MP. As long as citizens have NOT given any draft, MPs is not even required to move a muscle.
(10) "The system is fine, its the people that is the problem."
WRONG. The Nbjprie are corrupt only because they know that we commons cannot imprison/fine them no matter how much they rob us commons. So we need to solve the problem at both levels - people and system. We need to expel some bad eggs as well as enact laws (like recall, Jury etc) that will increase corrupt people landing in the prison.
(11) Yes the promotion and selection process in the military are very systematic and centralised .The reason being every one knows that he/she is being watched by their superiors and are well aware of the fact there is no second chance in case caught of any malpractice.
The military is less corrupt as lower and mid ranking officers dont interact with public nor they have any power over civilians nor are their budgets too high.
(12) Fight against corruption has to start from below
Fight against corruption MUST start from top. This litany that focus on bottom only is only to create a heaven for people on top. "Focus on corruption at bottom" means fight against Talati . (Village Officer) Tahsildaar etc and let IAS, IPS, Ministers, Supreme Court judges, HCjs etc mint as much as they want peacefully.
IMO, we should attack the top first. Clean all the Supreme Courts benches first and Central Ministers. Next, clean High Court benches and State Ministers. When that happens, 99% of the corruption at bottom will disappear. And then we take care of the next 1%. But if Supreme Court judges and Central Ministers are all corrupt, then corruption at bottom will never end no matter how much we fight.
The bottom survives because of the top. Its the knowledge that the babu is corrupt which makes it easier for the peon to ask for bribe
And forget knowledge, sometimes the top asks bottom to collect money and pass it up. And to indulges into reckless nepotism while recruiting bottom and middle which gives everyone a reason to be corrupt.
Eg why should a lower court judge give up his temptations when he knows that SC-Cj Khare bailed out a convicted wealthy Swiss pedophile? And why should PSI not collect bribes when HomeMin is giving target to each PI , and threatening a transfer is target is not met !!
All this hoopla that we must fight at bottom only and spare the top only ensures that IAS, judges and Ministers and top can collect bribes and also sleep peacefully while we all are busy fighting against Talaties and Tahsildaars.
Questioner-You have always suggested "systemic solutions" for corruption. Nothing wrong with that - but systemic soclutions with procedures like jurysys etc represent a "top-down" approach which is only one of the two methods that should be used.
My approach is 100% bottom up and I have no faith in pure top-down approach. My approach is to FIRST force PM to sign `Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` Executive Notification which would enable citizens to register YES/NO on proposals(previously submitted at collector office by any citizen) for Rs 3 fee at villge officer/Talati's office, and all this will come on the PM website, so that lakhs-crores can see those and verify those , anytime, anywhere. And ALL laws I have proposed including JurySys will go via `Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` channel. So nothing is top down. Later, the bottom will have procedures to expel PM, CMs, SCjs etc and so the "top will be down" literally.
(13) What kind of values we need to reduce corruption?
Consider some valuable question
1. Who owns the Natural Resources and GoI plots? Who should get the rents from them
2. Are commons Supreme or SCjs?
3. Should citizens be allowed to expel SC-Cj?
And many more, IOW, values and political system are one and the same. There is total mess in India, because commons do not have democratic values such as citizens own GoI plots, citizens are supreme and Citizens should have procedures to expel SC-Cj. Whereas Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) have oligarchic values such which says that SCjs are supreme and citizens are subject, citizens should get zero rent from GoI plots and so forth.
(14) These proposed procedures are revolutionary and impractical.
None of the proposals are revolutionary and each one is a TINY small change in existing administration. eg Consider the first proposal-`Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure`- (http://www.righttorecall.info/001.pdf)
The first proposal says -- put letters of us commons on PM's website and put us commons' YES/NO on PM's website. i.e. We commons get freedom to write on PM's website. Does this sound like a revolution to you? Of course, people who oppose my small evolutionary changes often WRONGLY label then as revolutionary to create a negative opinion by throwing bad labels on it.
And if one wants a proper discussion, one should avoid ambiguous words particularly words like "practical", "impractical" etc. The word "impractical" has at following different and unrelated meaning --
1. logistically infeasible
2. Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) will vehemently disagree and so I am scared of supporting it
3. my friends and relatives will not like if I support this law
4. commons will not understand what the proposed law is
and many more meanings.
eg my CA and lawyer friends say that "idea of not bribing Income Tax babu or judges is impractical". They mean (2) . The same CAs and lawyers also say that "opposing interviews in judicial recruitments is impractical". Again, they mean (2) -- they are scared of consequences they will have to face if they demand abolition of interviews in judiciary. And when one says "lets move to Mars to escape from corrupt neta-babu-judges", I say it is an impractical idea and I mean (1).
So when you use the word "impractical", how do I know what you mean? Suffices to say, that such words with 5-10 meanings should be avoided.
*pls do mentioned judges and intellectuals along with neta-babu. It is necessary we kill the myth that judges and intellectuals are non-corrupt, and so it is necessary that we take their names every time names of neta-babu is taken.
The first EN is small, tiny evolution. So simple and tiny that many such as yourself cant even notice the potential. But any seasoned politician, intellectual can see the tide it will unleash and how much damage it will cause to corrupt neta, IAS, IPS, judges. Which is why they have hated this first EN.
(15) There are unscrupulous fellows who sell land to multiple people and disappear. What is the solution?
This is due to lack of Torrens System in India. The problem was there all over world, and was first solved by Robert Torrens in Australia in 1860 by designing a record keeping system which was later called as Torrens System, and solved the problem of frauds in land deals.
The Indian neta-IAS-judges are hostile to Torrens system as the system requires registration of every "pre-sale" deed known as banakhat and sale deed. You know, neta-IAS-IPS-judges have miles and miles of land under their name, and a registration all this deed would make their wealth holding public
(16) Why good guys do not come in politics ?
Voters are NOT fool.
Just becaue they dont vote as you want them to vote doesn’t make them fools.
Since judges are nepotic and corrupt, violent and financial criminals rule the roost. And so violent and financial criminals have ensured that no 'good guys' dont become powerful and well known enough to even become an MLA. So only criminals or supporters of criminals are able to become well known. Some people support violent criminals, while some like Pramod, MMS etc support financial criminals (like Harshad Mehta).
If we want good guys to win, we first must ensure that good guys can breath and live, And for that we need to imprison violent and financial criminals, we need to imprison corrupt policemen, judges, Ministers etc. Only after that good guys will be able to win election.
The countries which installed JurySys were able to get low corruption regimes with higher freedom. (Communist countries had low corruption for a while, but no freedom either). The combination of high freedom and at the same time low indiscipline and low corruption created huge growth and reduced poverty. So it is NOT poverty which leads to corruption, but other way round.
(17) I think there are a variety of factors that influence corruption. Poverty being the biggest one of them.
Poverty is least of the reason behind corruption. Are IPS poor? Are SCjs poor? And all organized and planned crimes begin from courts --- the organized and planned criminal will NOT commit crimes if he knows that judges (or Jurors) will punish him with higher probabilities. Spare handful of crimes which are due to emotional outbursts, planned crimes are always a result of pro-criminal approach of courts, policemen etc.
eg Dawood has deep nexuses with SCjs, neta, IPS etc. So deep, that he could even bribe SCjs to harass Modi and Vanjhara for killing his agent Sorab. It is nexuses like this which makes Dawood and his men fearless criminals. They know that police, judges etc will acquit them no matter what they do.
Questioner-Also, policeman in India are badly paid, so once again they are more inclined to take bribes.
Only constables are low paid. PSI and above, like IPS, are very very well paid. Yet they are all corrupt.
(18) Will lie detector test and narco test without recall procedures over the investigating officer reduce corruption ?
Lie detector test and narco test without recall procedures over the investigating officer will not reduce corruption as the investigating officer can sell out and ask easy questions or give less dose of narcotic so that the person can be awake and easily lie.